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unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#12951: Mar 29th 2015 at 7:04:24 PM

According to Jaco, time travel is completely impossible and a violation of the laws of the universe.

Also according to many branches of actual physics.

Not all branches, obviously.

edited 29th Mar '15 7:04:58 PM by unnoun

JonnasN from Porto, Portugal Since: Jul, 2012
#12952: Mar 29th 2015 at 7:13:10 PM

I don't see the Baby saga as a revenge story, I see it as a story about how the last Tsufur (who is a genetically modified cyborg-thing) wants to revive the race by using the Earth and the humans as Replacement Goldfish (Note that this is probably why the machine planet existed in the first place, that was the first attempt at "New Tsufur"). That Baby had to defeat Saiyans to accomplish this goal was just the icing on the cake, and a poetic narrative for his goals.

The Baby Arc was the best written in GT. It still had flaws, but the overall concept was good, and the execution wasn't too shabby.

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#12953: Mar 29th 2015 at 7:15:54 PM

It was good until Baby just randomly decided to start killing everyone because he was curious what it felt like to be a saiyan or whatever stupid reason he gave.

JonnasN from Porto, Portugal Since: Jul, 2012
#12954: Mar 29th 2015 at 7:19:03 PM

He did? I remember him attacking his allies out of rage, but that's it.

unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#12955: Mar 29th 2015 at 7:22:17 PM

So, what if Guru had unlocked Vegeta's potential on Namek?

I mean, it probably would have been a bad idea.

What if he'd unlocked Goku's potential?

IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#12956: Mar 29th 2015 at 8:02:59 PM

Vegeta likely had too much potential to be unlocked then, much like Gohan, and would have probably only gotten a relatively small boost. Probably enough to beat Recoome, but he'd still get creamed by Jeice and Burter, and his Zenkai would likely not be enough to put him over Freeza's second form.

So, not much would change.

Same with Goku's. He might actually get Freeza to pull off more than 50% of his power before going SSJ, and would most likely outstrip 100% Freeza so severely it wouldn't be funny as a SSJ, which means he'd never learn Instant Transmission since he'd probably not stay until the last second (because the fight with Freeza is a whole lot less fun now that they're so incredibly far apart).

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
Zelenal The Cat Knows Where It's At from Purrgatory Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
The Cat Knows Where It's At
#12957: Mar 29th 2015 at 8:08:53 PM

Goku and Vegeta's behavior regarding the Androids falls perfectly within their characters. I mean, Goku let Frieza power up completely instead of just wrecking his shit and would later go on to no fight Kid Buu all out which almost cost them the entire universe. Saiyans, by nature, are Blood Knights. Except Gohan at the beginning and during the Cell Games. You know, that is really weird now that it's been pointed out. He had no problems fighting Frieza and his goons or Vegeta and Nappa or even the Androids.

As for Future Trunks and everyone else, well, what could they have done to stop Vegeta? Vegeta was more powerful than they were and Future Trunks just came to give the warning then left before coming back to help fight. I also don't think he knew where Dr. Gero's lab was. Future Trunks also objected to Vegeta letting Cell power up but Vegeta just knocked him out, I do believe.

As for the modular Super Saiyan, I recall them actually explaining how that worked and it seems believable to me. I mean, it's not like they came up with it on the spot. Vegeta, and then later Goku, came up with it during a year of intense training aimed specifically at trying to figure out if they can amplify their Super Saiyan form. After the Ascended Super Saiyan forms, Super Saiyan 2 is perfectly believable. Also, there was nothing to indicate that the Super Saiyan form wasn't modular since we knew basically nothing about it other than that it was super rare and super powerful.

As for the heart virus, I think that was explained in an interview. In Future Trunks' timeline, Goku used Instant Transmission to get to Earth and then fight off Mecha Frieza and King Cold. All of that extra fighting as a Super Saiyan accelerated the heart virus (which is probably why it didn't really show itself until Goku transformed).

As for Androids 16, 19, and 20; yeah, there's no excuse for that.

As for Mecha Frieza, that could just be because not a lot of research has gone into that particular branch of science while Dr. Gero dedicated a large portion of his life to it.

You are also grievously misusing the term Retcon. I'm also getting the distinct impression that you have a massive hatred for fanfiction.

Let the joy of love give you an answer! Check out my book!
unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#12958: Mar 29th 2015 at 8:12:02 PM

According to Toriyama, Super Saiyan 1, 2 and 3 are still suboptimal and Goku is going to power up his base form from now on.

Or something, I dunno, I think Toriyama has made enough money off of this series that he's basically perpetually on drugs.

IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#12959: Mar 29th 2015 at 8:17:08 PM

Actually, after witnessing the Mystic powerup, it is entirely likely that Goku would be looking for a way to get all that power without all those drawbacks. Super Saiyan 3 drains his ki so fast it's practically useless in a battle he can't win instantly. The only transformation that isn't inefficient is the original Super Saiyan, and even that is solely because he mastered the shit out of it.

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#12960: Mar 29th 2015 at 8:17:36 PM

[up] I kinda like that he's actively involved in it again, honestly.

unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#12961: Mar 29th 2015 at 8:22:03 PM

[up][up]Idea: try mastering the shit out of the other Super Saiyan levels.

[up] Did I say it was a bad thing?

edited 29th Mar '15 8:22:29 PM by unnoun

IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#12962: Mar 29th 2015 at 8:24:53 PM

Yes, Goku should have tried to master the shit out of the other Super Saiyan levels. Probably mastered the second level offscreen, and the third has most likely gone from 'so bad it's unusable' to 'tolerable if you can end your enemy in two hits or less'.

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#12963: Mar 29th 2015 at 8:30:48 PM

Just spend like a month in each super saiyan level and do regular shit. Try not to break anything.

IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#12964: Mar 29th 2015 at 8:33:15 PM

Can you imagine the sort of hair care that SSJ 3 needs? I don't think it's worth it. My hair's only down to my shoulders and I'm considering cutting it because of how much care it needs.

edited 29th Mar '15 8:33:39 PM by IAmNotCreativeEnough

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
Zelenal The Cat Knows Where It's At from Purrgatory Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
The Cat Knows Where It's At
#12965: Mar 29th 2015 at 8:37:28 PM

It took them close to a year to achieve Full Power Super Saiyan. I don't think a month would be long enough for Super Saiyan 2 or 3. Especially 3.

But I would have liked to see Goku achieving Full Power Super Saiyan 2 during his time in the Otherworld.

And for Gohan to have not been a little bitch and achieved it as well. It's not like he has to do anything special to do so. Gohan had evidently not heard the phrase "Better safe than sorry."

Also, while I don't know her characterization in the original, DBZ made me kinda hate Chi-Chi. They would have likely had a significantly easier time in parts, especially the Buu Saga, had Chi-Chi not insisted that Gohan be a scholar and made his a pussy.

I'll ask again: Can someone line out the official sagas for me? I've always been somewhat confused by the number and names.

Let the joy of love give you an answer! Check out my book!
LOLypop1224 ...what am I even DOING here? Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
...what am I even DOING here?
#12966: Mar 29th 2015 at 8:38:07 PM

I do hope the blue is fake. It's just...there's....it....

There's no REASON for it to exist. And for it to be stronger than SSJG. Law of Chromatic Superiority. It made sense for red to be the strongest. What's so special about blue?

The *Legendary* Super Saiyan is motivated by a crying infant! He is a literal giant f***ing baby!
Raven666 I'd totally hug you if that was something I did from Everywhere and Nowhere. I'm watching you. Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
I'd totally hug you if that was something I did
#12967: Mar 29th 2015 at 8:38:52 PM

  • What i'm about to say is most likely wrong for a number of reasons* I never got why people seem to think Goku should master the other forms. Ok, so each form is like pretty much a power multiplier right? I always thought instead of mastering the other forms, he should increase his power in his base form, thus causing his Super Saiyan form to be stronger until it gets to the point where going Super Saiyan becomes overkill. Wouldn't that make more sense? Plus, I say it makes Goku look even more awesome. Which would be cooler? Beating someone like Buu as one of his Super Saiyan forms, or beating the crap out of Buu in his base form? I'd go with the latter option. That was a big reason why I decided against giving my Saiyan the Super Saiyan/Super Vegeta skills in Xenoverse, until I found out about the unlimited Special/Ultimate attacks that is. That said, I won't deny that the transformations are awesome.

As my first sentence said, what I said is probably wrong/stupid. Most of what I know is either from the Anime - and even then it's hat I can remember -what others have said, or what I remember reading off the Dragon Ball wiki. If what I said is right - save for the parts that are like opinion based - than i'll feel pretty awesome.

I watching the first episode of Dragon Ball and this crossed my mind. Kid Goku needs to save Bulma from a Pterodactyl, but he can't fly. What's he do? He launches a fucking motorcycle into the air and smashes his extending rod - I know what it's called, I was trying to make a joke - over it's head, freeing her. Adult Goku comes across the same problem? He'd just like fly up their and punch it or something. Anyone else think Dragon Ball was a lot more fun? Sure, Z is awesome but to me Dragon Ball will always be better.

edited 29th Mar '15 8:47:37 PM by Raven666

What started out as a pleasant afternoon of drugs and surgery has not gone as planned.
Zelenal The Cat Knows Where It's At from Purrgatory Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
The Cat Knows Where It's At
#12968: Mar 29th 2015 at 8:45:31 PM

They can still increase their base power while mastering the Super Saiyan forms. There's no reason for them not to do both. After all, if a threat forced them to go Super Saiyan 2 then it would be best if they lowered the ki consumed by it as much as possible so they had greater control over it. This would let them fight longer and likely have more powerful ki attacks.

Let the joy of love give you an answer! Check out my book!
unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#12969: Mar 29th 2015 at 8:47:29 PM

I thought it took Goku a few months in the time chamber to come up with the Full Power Super Saiyan as a concept.

Like, they had already used most of their time before he had the idea.

Raven666 I'd totally hug you if that was something I did from Everywhere and Nowhere. I'm watching you. Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
I'd totally hug you if that was something I did
#12970: Mar 29th 2015 at 8:49:16 PM

[up][up] I guess that's true. I still think being able to destroy anyone without transforming is cooler than transforming to destroy them.

What started out as a pleasant afternoon of drugs and surgery has not gone as planned.
LedWalrus Since: Jun, 2009
#12971: Mar 29th 2015 at 8:49:27 PM

Also, while I don't know her characterization in the original, DBZ made me kinda hate Chi-Chi. They would have likely had a significantly easier time in parts, especially the Buu Saga, had Chi-Chi not insisted that Gohan be a scholar and made his a pussy.

Chi Chi is the strongest person in the universe; she effectively castrated the second strongest person in the universe.

I just remembered the other day that even though everyone gives Vegeta a lot of shit for allowing Cell to become Perfect, Krillin deserves equal blame. He could have made 18 a non-problem but thanks to the Power of Boners, Cell became perfect.

If Krillin did the right thing, it would have been the second person he killed that made a difference.

And isn't it disappointing how a lot of major things have very little payback? They wished back the losers of the Saiyan saga and all that got them was distracting Cell for a few minutes. They wished back Krillin and all that got them was an opportunity to fuck the heroes over during the Cell Saga. Krillin let 18 live, and all that got them was a tiny, even more useless she-Krillin with blonde hair.

unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#12972: Mar 29th 2015 at 8:51:55 PM

I'm not sure I like your definitions of usefulness.

They seem a little bit sociopathic.

Vegeta is a bad influence.

Raven666 I'd totally hug you if that was something I did from Everywhere and Nowhere. I'm watching you. Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
I'd totally hug you if that was something I did
#12973: Mar 29th 2015 at 8:52:44 PM

[up][up]Krillin was thinking with his head, can't blame him really. The guy hung around Roshi constantly so he probably picked up a few things.

Plus, if he had killed her he never would have gotten laid. Maybe he would have but why risk it? Save the world, or have sex with an android? No man should have to make that choice.

edited 29th Mar '15 8:54:54 PM by Raven666

What started out as a pleasant afternoon of drugs and surgery has not gone as planned.
Zelenal The Cat Knows Where It's At from Purrgatory Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
The Cat Knows Where It's At
#12974: Mar 29th 2015 at 8:58:30 PM

[up] Krillian was thinking with the wrong head. Of course, you can't fully blame the guy. He hadn't experienced the horror of the Androids that Future Trunks had and 18 is pretty cute. And I think the only female in the series to actually show interest in him.

What Krillian should have done is use his Kienzan after blinding Frieza with the Taiyouken or while Cell was powering up. Or, hell, use his Kienzan on the Androids whenever they couldn't see him since they can't sense energy.

Let the joy of love give you an answer! Check out my book!
Raven666 I'd totally hug you if that was something I did from Everywhere and Nowhere. I'm watching you. Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
I'd totally hug you if that was something I did
#12975: Mar 29th 2015 at 9:02:11 PM

That's the head I was referring to.

What kind of crazy plan is that? Are you insane?! He can't do that! It makes to much sense!

What started out as a pleasant afternoon of drugs and surgery has not gone as planned.

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