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HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#12701: Mar 26th 2015 at 7:52:23 PM

Then again, as has been pointed out, some of the fault is Frieza's. He's five times better than the next best guy in his army at his weakest.

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#12702: Mar 26th 2015 at 7:53:45 PM

Bulma makes things that are literally impossible. With ease.

The only problem I find is the actual numbers attached to Freeza which make everything related to him, including himself, completely unbelievable.

[up] all of it is Freeza's. He is every single problem with battle power.

edited 26th Mar '15 7:54:23 PM by Saiga

Cortez from Parts Unknown (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#12703: Mar 26th 2015 at 7:54:10 PM

@Tobias Drake: That's not exactly true though.

Tien developed a close bond with Yamcha, Lunch, Goku, Future Trunks and Piccolo.

He also developed the most useful techniques in the series.

edited 26th Mar '15 7:55:07 PM by Cortez

HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#12704: Mar 26th 2015 at 7:55:05 PM

The Muggles considered it believable that CC built Porunga, so that's not exactly a stretch...

Zelenal The Cat Knows Where It's At from Purrgatory Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
The Cat Knows Where It's At
#12705: Mar 26th 2015 at 7:55:09 PM

So Super Saiyan 3 increases a Saiyan's base Power Level by a factor of 400.

Holy shit.

Let the joy of love give you an answer! Check out my book!
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#12706: Mar 26th 2015 at 7:56:56 PM

I'm fine with the goofiness but I agree that the Androids' battle power strains suspension of disbelief. Yes, they were a rival of Capsule Corp, but I wouldn't expect Bulma to be able to build a robot from scratch with a battle power of several hundred million either. 8 was amazing for the point in the story where he existed, but that point considered characters with battle powers less than 200 to be unspeakably powerful.

What if she spent years monitoring and studying Ki and fighters, analyzing it over and over again until she could create something that could simulate it.

I mean, she's from a family that created tech that condensed houses into little capsules. I totally think she could if she'd had the same time that Gero did and made the same amount of effort. Hell, imagine if Gero had actually (1) found a way to follow Goku into Space and (2)been able to actually control 17 and 18.

He'd have had his revenge a hundred times over.

edited 26th Mar '15 7:57:55 PM by HandsomeRob

One Strip! One Strip!
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#12707: Mar 26th 2015 at 7:58:01 PM

No, he didn't. He avoids Lunch, kind of likes Goku and is an acquaintance with the rest.

Saying he was happy to see how Gohan has grown is the only sign he's shown to care about others. At the end of the Cell arc he says he probably won't see them again because he doesn't care enough.

Also it was his dickhead teacher that taught him all those moves.

edited 26th Mar '15 7:58:55 PM by Saiga

Ssj3Gojira Arashi Shigehito from The Event Horizon Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Arashi Shigehito
#12708: Mar 26th 2015 at 8:01:54 PM

Except for the four arms and Multi-Form skills, which are byproducts of him being a descendant of the Three Eye Clan.

Let's see if you can get past my Beelzemon. Mephiles, WARP SHINKA!
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#12709: Mar 26th 2015 at 8:02:07 PM

Well it was a pervert teacher who taught Goku and Krillin.

Doesn't mean they didn't learn anything good. Same for Tien.

One Strip! One Strip!
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#12710: Mar 26th 2015 at 8:04:50 PM

[up][up] which aren't useful.

[up] yeah, but Ten deserves no credit for that.

edited 26th Mar '15 8:05:26 PM by Saiga

IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#12711: Mar 26th 2015 at 8:19:22 PM

The powerlevel numbers were ridiculously high because they were clearly designed for a much lower scale.

Freeza throws it entirely out of wack, but if you consider everyone else, then the numbers aren't that ridiculous. If the strongest guys in the universe range around the ~60,000 and there's all of one guy who breaks 100,000, then it isn't that crazy a scale.

Having Power Multipliers, though, kind of makes numbers climb REALLY frikkin' quickly, though.

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#12712: Mar 26th 2015 at 8:23:47 PM

I could see the three Androids being between form 3 and 4 of Frieza, but I think they're supposed to be above all his forms?

IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#12713: Mar 26th 2015 at 8:29:05 PM

... Don't tell me you're one of those guys who thinks Freeza was super powerful and stuff.

I've seen people literally, and honestly, claim that Freeza is stronger than the androids.

The very idea is laughable at best.

17 and 18 are so far above Freeza it isn't even funny, 16 is even further up and Cell makes him look positively wimpy.

edited 26th Mar '15 8:29:51 PM by IAmNotCreativeEnough

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#12714: Mar 26th 2015 at 8:29:36 PM

They are. Otherwise they'd stand no chance against any of the Super Saiyans. Trunks killed Frieza with ease, after all.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#12715: Mar 26th 2015 at 8:30:29 PM

I know they're supposed to be stronger, and I accept that. I just find it a but rough on the old Willing Suspension of Disbelief is all, mostly, as I said, due to how goofy most of RR was.

IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#12716: Mar 26th 2015 at 9:15:49 PM

I don't know why you're so shocked.

The Androids were made by a genius on par with Bulma Briefs, over an extremely long period of time which he dedicated solely to revenge.

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#12717: Mar 26th 2015 at 9:22:27 PM

I guess.

On a totally different, but still Android-related note, Toriyama revealed 18's real name is "Lazuli" (with her brother, naturally, being Lapis). Has she been called this in any of the more recent works, or does she still just go by #18?

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#12718: Mar 26th 2015 at 9:23:01 PM

Gero wasn't just on par with Bulma and her father, he was far ahead of them.

edited 26th Mar '15 9:23:30 PM by LSBK

IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#12719: Mar 26th 2015 at 9:28:09 PM

Oh, he's definitely far ahead of them in his specific fields, but I'm counting Bulma and her father's spread as a massive bonus on their competence counter.

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#12720: Mar 26th 2015 at 9:29:58 PM

I guess what I don't understand is, if Gero could build planet-busting androids in his basement, why he didn't just do so earlier and stage a coup on General Red and his band of weirdoes. It's not like they had anything nearly as good...

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#12721: Mar 26th 2015 at 9:36:41 PM

[up]Tobias Drake has gone over the problems you're talking about with Gero, as well as with Cell, many times. He can describe it better than anyone else can.

edited 26th Mar '15 9:37:13 PM by LSBK

HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#12722: Mar 26th 2015 at 9:44:09 PM

Oh, I have no problem with Cell, actually. Given how he was made, his strength makes total sense. The seeming disparity in threat level between Gero and the rest of Red Ribbon is really my only issue..

edited 26th Mar '15 9:44:23 PM by HamburgerTime

Crowley Since: Jan, 2001
#12723: Mar 26th 2015 at 10:05:07 PM

[up]x6 Android 18 and 17 seem to have amnesia over their human lives, so guess there's no way for it to come up in-universe.

I like to think that Dr. Gero's creations being insanely powerful was due to some scientific breakthrough on ki. Like, the Ki equivalent of figuring out cold fusion.

edited 26th Mar '15 10:06:09 PM by Crowley

IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#12724: Mar 26th 2015 at 10:10:40 PM

Necessity is the mother of invention. Gero likely never imagined powerful blasts the likes of which Vegeta threw around like candy could even exist. Why would he have created androids as powerful as 16, 17 or 18 if he had never had any reason to believe it's even possible in the first place?

Hell, it's likely that, before he started observing Goku regularly, he didn't even know what Ki was or that it even existed.

The 'Why didn't he create them earlier?' question is a very stupid one.

edited 26th Mar '15 10:11:14 PM by IAmNotCreativeEnough

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
Enlong Court Dragon from The Underground Facility Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
Court Dragon
#12725: Mar 26th 2015 at 10:16:29 PM

Man, if Gero was willing to drop the revenge plot, he could've instead patented and sold his infinite energy reactor tech and lived like a king for the rest of his (robotically extended) life.

edited 26th Mar '15 10:16:49 PM by Enlong

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