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Raven666 I'd totally hug you if that was something I did from Everywhere and Nowhere. I'm watching you. Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
I'd totally hug you if that was something I did
#12251: Mar 19th 2015 at 1:18:53 PM

So at the moment, DLC pack 3 seems to be the crappiest (unless Jaco and Roshi's outfit are like must haves for someone in which case it'd be the best) but i'm assuming what's been revealed for it isn't the full amount. Any characters that anyone thinks should be added into the game with pack 3 or any DLC after it? I'd love to see Cooler, Turles, Fasha, Tora, Borgos, Shugesh, Chiaotzu, King Vegeta, King Cold, Salza, Dore, Neiz, Zarbon, Dodoria, Janemba, Dabura, King Kai or King Piccolo.

I was going to add Chi-Chi but she can't fly and I doubt she'd get a jet pack. Can Mr.Popo fly? I can't remember right now but if he can he should totally be added. Anyone else anyone wants to see added in future DLC?

What started out as a pleasant afternoon of drugs and surgery has not gone as planned.
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#12252: Mar 19th 2015 at 1:28:29 PM

As I already said we have been TOLD that isn't the full amount of the DLC.

@Tobias can't respond to the full post yet but you're wrong on Gohan he had a battle power of 1. One. His rage boost makes him unique in that he can power up further, but he'd still be classed as a low class Saiyan from birth. Because that is what happens when you judge from that early on. It means nothing. It's also said a Saiyan can be promoted, so starting out as a low class does not mean you have failure genes.

I never said Gohan can't lose power, it just makes no sense that the Ultimate form dropping due to lack of training makes no sense. Why would the spell be dependant on training to be maintained?

And I never made any claim that Toriyama hates Gohan and wants to make the fans suffer. I just think this was done to make Gohan fit in more with the rest of the supporting cast once it was decided it wouldn't be relevant anymore. That or it's just so the concept can be used for Goku and Vegeta without it being confusing.

Stiiiiill didn't earn those, though. The effort doesn't come close to matching the payout.

Even though Super Saiyan needed to be worked on, that was still a 50x power up and he didn't need to become 50x stronger to make it useful, so just having Super Saiyan is doing the majority of the work.

Super Saiyan God lost the fight but has nothing to do with earning things. It also impressed Beerus enough to spare Earth, so it was pretty damn significant.

Gotenks got his ass kicked against Boo because he fought in base, we don't know how he would have done as a Super Saiyan if he hadn't wasted time until Boo transformed. Not even seeing how this is relevant.

Also, potara. Goku did nothing to earn that boost.

aaaand getting to the end of that I see you're arguing something completely different to me. I only said Goku doesn't earn his power ups. Not that they don't require work put it at any point.

It's not earning a power up if you get boosted to a high power for nothing, then train to get to a higher power.

Guess you don't remember Dragon Ball, because Roshi and Ten used super strength to win.

I'm talking about non superhuman masters noting that Goku and Kuririn have openings in their stance and then getting wrecked because skill means nothing if someone is so fast you can't process what is happening. Roshi should be more skilled than Goku and yet it never comes up in their fight, aside from having more named techniques. He doesn't show an advantage in hand to hand or anything, only the final blow was particularly skillful.

Oh and Freeza / Piccolo / the Androids are why I said almost. Aaaand they're still not that strong anyway.

edited 19th Mar '15 1:51:29 PM by Saiga

Raven666 I'd totally hug you if that was something I did from Everywhere and Nowhere. I'm watching you. Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
I'd totally hug you if that was something I did
#12253: Mar 19th 2015 at 1:34:04 PM

...I really need to pay more attention when people say things.

What started out as a pleasant afternoon of drugs and surgery has not gone as planned.
unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#12254: Mar 19th 2015 at 1:58:19 PM

I love/hate canon fights.

See also why I don't tend to get along with anyone in this thread.

A bit sexist. Just a tad.

Kaiser Neko everybody.

Shlugo_the_great King of Burgers from Far Far Away (On A Trope Odyssey) Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
King of Burgers
#12255: Mar 19th 2015 at 1:59:31 PM

So Goku and Vegeta are from Japan.

Space Japan.

Cruherrx I say things. from my own little world Since: Apr, 2010 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
I say things.
#12256: Mar 19th 2015 at 2:35:36 PM

That's really cool and all, but all of that got him to a power level less than 500. All he did on King Kai's planet was chase Bubbles and learn the Kaioken and Spirit Bomb. That somehow got him to over 8000. You can believe what you wanna, but when you put that with everything else we know, it clearly points to him being SUPER special among the Saiyans. Same for Vegeta since he has more or less the same growth.

That is what I mean by "mutant". Both of them somehow weren't born with the natural limitations on Saiyan growth that everyone else had.

"If you weren't so crazy I'd think you were insane."
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#12257: Mar 19th 2015 at 2:41:57 PM

@Tobias can't respond to the full post yet but you're wrong on Gohan he had a battle power of 1. One. His rage boost makes him unique in that he can power up further, but he'd still be classed as a low class Saiyan from birth. Because that is what happens when you judge from that early on. It means nothing. It's also said a Saiyan can be promoted, so starting out as a low class does not mean you have failure genes.

Gohan's battle power of 1 is about as valid as all the times characters were read while masking their battle powers. Goku, for instance, arriving on Namek with a battle power readout of 5,000. Gohan may have read 1 on a Scouter, but when a four-year-old can raise his battle power to 1,307 on a lightswitch, that's not "having a pathetic power level to begin with". At four years old and with absolutely no training whatsoever, Gohan was almost as powerful as Raditz. Goku, meanwhile, had a battle power of 10 when he was twelve.

I never said Gohan can't lose power, it just makes no sense that the Ultimate form dropping due to lack of training makes no sense. Why would the spell be dependant on training to be maintained?

Because Ultimate Gohan isn't a transformation - it's a massive boost to Gohan's base, and Gohan's base can wither from neglect just as easily now as it could before. It's not a form at all.

Stiiiiill didn't earn those, though. The effort doesn't come close to matching the payout.

Even though Super Saiyan needed to be worked on, that was still a 50x power up and he didn't need to become 50x stronger to make it useful, so just having Super Saiyan is doing the majority of the work.

No, I'd say his Gravity Training was doing the majority of the work. If Goku had become a Super Saiyan without his intense 100x gravity training, he would have transformed into a battle power of 400,000 and been too weak to even compete with Frieza's First Form. The zenkai racial boost helped significantly in pushing him to the battle power he needed for the Super Saiyan transformation to even be relevant against Frieza, but the only reason he got so many zenkais was because of his training.

Grinding his zenkai increased Goku's battle power by 375x before he got his 50x transformation. Super Saiyan would have been meaningless without the hard work Goku put into his training on the way to Namek.

Super Saiyan God lost the fight but has nothing to do with earning things. It also impressed Beerus enough to spare Earth, so it was pretty damn significant.

It has everything to do with earning things. Super Saiyan God disappointed everyone. It disappointed Goku, it disappointed Beerus, and it disappointed the audience. Goku impressed Beerus enough to spare Earth, not Super Saiyan God, and now he and Vegeta are training under Whis, once again embracing hard work and effort over free candy power-boosts.

Gotenks got his ass kicked against Boo because he fought in base, we don't know how he would have done as a Super Saiyan if he hadn't wasted time until Boo transformed. Not even seeing how this is relevant.

Gotenks fought in base rather than learning to become a Super Saiyan in that form because he was a cocky shithead who thought the power he gained from the Fusion Dance would be enough, and he was proven wrong. It was only as a Super Saiyan 3 that Gotenks was ever a match for Majin Buu, and that was the product of the time the boy spent in the RoSaT. As with many characters before them, Goten and Trunks got this amazing power-up, relied too heavily on it alone, were humiliatingly defeated, and then had to go back and put in the work to learn how to wield it properly.

The natural power of Gotenks is worthless; the abilities the kids came up with and the transformations they mastered through practice, training, and exploration of Gotenks's capabilities are what made him relevant.

Also, potara. Goku did nothing to earn that boost.

Agreed. The Potara completely clashes with the theme, which is probably why it was written out so anticlimactically - Goku and Vegeta destroying the earrings for no real reason other than Toriyama decided almost instantly that he didn't want these to be a thing anymore.

aaaand getting to the end of that I see you're arguing something completely different to me. I only said Goku doesn't earn his power ups. Not that they don't require work put it at any point.

It's not earning a power up if you get boosted to a high power for nothing, then train to get to a higher power.

See, I see it the other way. Goku trained to get to a higher power and was occasionally awarded boosts for his troubles. Like the boost from 90,000 to 3,000,000 on Namek - an incredible 33x buff in a single zenkai is utterly insane, but it caps off the 11x gains he made from popping Senzu like candy in a 100x gravity environment.

Likewise, Super Saiyan is a great multiplier, but Goku had to grind his face against the insurmountable force of Frieza for a long time before he got that, outsmarting and outfighting the indomitable titan at every turn. By power alone, Frieza was always going to win, but by performance, Goku is clearly the better fighter, and it was only after emptying every gun in Chekhovs Arsenal, inventing a few more along the way, and surviving countless assaults from a warrior 40x his strength that Goku was awarded the power needed to win.

Goku doesn't just get boosts for nothing. He's been working his ass off since he was 12.

Guess you don't remember Dragon Ball, because Roshi and Ten used super strength to win.

I'm talking about non superhuman masters noting that Goku and Kuririn have openings in their stance and then getting wrecked because skill means nothing if someone is so fast you can't process what is happening. Roshi should be more skilled than Goku and yet it never comes up in their fight, aside from having more named techniques. He doesn't show an advantage in hand to hand or anything, only the final blow was particularly skillful.

It hardly qualifies as super strength if it's something anyone in the setting could learn if they knew how. Ki manipulation isn't public knowledge but it's not exactly something that only certain individuals are born possessing the ability to master. Ki control isn't a superpower, it's a fantastic martial art.

Roshiis more skilled than Goku. The problem is that Goku is stronger than Roshi - and I will note that this is not because Goku was just born super-strong, but because Roshi's been strength training him. Goku improved faster than Krillin, but they both improved enough to give Roshi cause for alarm in the "Move This Boulder" Snipe Hunt he gave them. Roshi made Goku terribly strong just in time to have to fight him in the Tenkaichi Budokai, and he still prevailed over the kid through cleverness and experience.

Oh and Freeza / Piccolo / the Androids are why I said almost. Aaaand they're still not that strong anyway.

Maybe not compared to gods and god-killing abominations, but Frieza was the most powerful being in the universe naturally with a gap of 1,000x between him and the second-most powerful, and has the potential to become god-killing strong by working hard and applying himself. The Androids are significantly stronger than Original Frieza with infinite energy on top of it. Piccolo is even stronger than them.

I hardly consider this "not that strong". They were Overshadowed by Awesome as Goku, Gohan, and Vegeta outgrew their universe and had to start fighting eldritch horrors, but they're all still inconceivably powerful, and Frieza's about to catch up.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
LOLypop1224 ...what am I even DOING here? Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
...what am I even DOING here?
#12258: Mar 19th 2015 at 2:47:20 PM

[up][up][up][up] Bless you, Kaiser. I'm glad people actually bring this stuff up.

The Videl vs Spopovich fight is full of Unfortunate Implications. Like, not only is she beaten up, but then everyone tells her to give up, and she doesn't. It almost makes it seem like her getting beaten up is her fault for not surrendering, not just because she had the bad luck to fight a Majin.

And then there's the fact that fight exists to get her stuffed in the fridge for Gohan...

The *Legendary* Super Saiyan is motivated by a crying infant! He is a literal giant f***ing baby!
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#12259: Mar 19th 2015 at 2:54:37 PM

The canon fight unnoun keeps linking

Look. Here's the thing. Dragon Ball takes place on Earth, but it's clearly an alternate history Earth, and that muddies the topic significantly when trying to exactly place where things are. For one thing, there are no nations. Nobody's Japanese. Nobody's Chinese. Nobody's European. There is no such thing as Japan, China, or Europe. The world is a single nation united long ago by someone using the Dragon Balls to wish for world domination. National borders do not exist.

As for artistic inspiration, Krillin's clearly rocking the Asian Monastery thing, Roshi seems more Hawaiian than anything else, Bulma seems like a typical anime depiction of the Shallow, Self-Centered Westerner, Chi Chi's got the Chinese Princess look, Tien and Chiaotzu also seem to have a Chinese inspiration, Goku and Vegeta are space aliens. Some characters have cultural indications that roughly correspond to real-world ethnicities, but this is not our Earth, nor has it ever been depicted as such.

Dragon Ball is a Japanese manga based on a Chinese story taking place in a mystical fantasy world that happens to be named Earth. It's not the best franchise to get bent out of shape over precise ethnicities with.

That's really cool and all, but all of that got him to a power level less than 500. All he did on King Kai's planet was chase Bubbles and learn the Kaioken and Spirit Bomb. That somehow got him to over 8000. You can believe what you wanna, but when you put that with everything else we know, it clearly points to him being SUPER special among the Saiyans. Same for Vegeta since he has more or less the same growth.

That is what I mean by "mutant". Both of them somehow weren't born with the natural limitations on Saiyan growth that everyone else had.

You're discounting the fact that a) Bubbles is super fast, and b) Goku had to do it with his weighted training equipment on, which weighs 10x as much on a planet with 10x Earth's gravity. Goku could barely move in that gear, whereas he was springing around effortlessly without it.

And even when he finally did catch the monkey and begin his training, he did it by outsmarting Bubbles rather than outrunning him; he clearly kept growing in strength while learning the Kaioken and Genki-Dama. By the time Goku was finished, he was able to outpace Bubbles almost instantly, demonstrating how much Kaio-sama's training had done for his battle power.

edited 19th Mar '15 2:59:52 PM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
BaconManiac5000 Since: Nov, 2013 Relationship Status: Baby don't hurt me!
#12260: Mar 19th 2015 at 2:58:36 PM

Don't forget all the stuff Goku did with Gregory, too.

what do you mean I didn't win, I ate more wet t-shirts than anyone else
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#12262: Mar 19th 2015 at 3:00:01 PM

Gregory's filler.

[nja]

edited 19th Mar '15 3:00:07 PM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
LordofLore Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Consider his love an honor
#12263: Mar 19th 2015 at 3:01:48 PM

Dragon Ball Kai is Dragon Ball Z without all the filler and most of the padding, right? How many episodes is it compared to Z?

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#12264: Mar 19th 2015 at 3:02:41 PM

Kai didn't take out all of the filler just most of it.

unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#12265: Mar 19th 2015 at 3:02:58 PM

So given how much stuff there is about training in high gravity, why didn't anyone ever train in a black hole before?

Yes it's ridiculous, but so is every single power level reading after Vegeta tried to blow up Earth in the Saiyan saga.

I mean, there are several times when a ki blast is deflected into the ground on Namek and in the Android and Cell and Buu arcs and at the level of power the characters are at the world should probably have gone boom.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#12266: Mar 19th 2015 at 3:03:59 PM

They might not have thought about it before Frieza did.

It merits noting that this is exactly how Goku trains. He learned it from Kame-sennin strapping huge, heavy turtleshells to the kids' backs before strength training them, and upgrading them to heavier turtleshells when they outgrew them. Goku weighs himself down until he can barely move and then does his exercises, and his strength grows immensely because of it.

He did it with turtleshells, he did it with his weighted gi, he did it on Kaio-sama's planet, he did it with Gravity Training. When Goku outgrows his weights, he finds heavier ones, because that's what Kame-sennin taught him. Kaio-sama taught him to increase the gravity instead of the weight, and Vegeta learned to do the same thing from seeing Goku's gains on Namek.

edited 19th Mar '15 3:04:56 PM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#12267: Mar 19th 2015 at 3:04:36 PM

At one point I think it's said that they control those blasts to make sure they don't destroy the planet and stuff. If that weren't the case a lot of things stop making sense.

unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#12268: Mar 19th 2015 at 3:05:01 PM

[up][up] I mean, I would think it would have happened by accident, because they'd fire really strong attacks to hurt their opponent that get deflected.

edited 19th Mar '15 3:05:10 PM by unnoun

Cortez from Parts Unknown (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#12269: Mar 19th 2015 at 3:06:06 PM

I wonder what Towa's moves will be.

unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#12270: Mar 19th 2015 at 3:07:24 PM

Also, I demand pictures of Uub wearing a turtle shell.

Shlugo_the_great King of Burgers from Far Far Away (On A Trope Odyssey) Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
King of Burgers
#12271: Mar 19th 2015 at 3:18:42 PM

Akira Toriyama sexist? Perish the thought! It's not like he wrote a story about female crime fighter that is first raped by a cab driver and later by the criminal who she was pursuing and at the end becomes a prostitute because it pays better than crime fighting!

Oh wait, he did. :|

edited 19th Mar '15 3:25:43 PM by Shlugo_the_great

Ssj3Gojira Arashi Shigehito from The Event Horizon Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Arashi Shigehito
#12272: Mar 19th 2015 at 3:21:20 PM

[up] When was this?!

Let's see if you can get past my Beelzemon. Mephiles, WARP SHINKA!
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#12273: Mar 19th 2015 at 3:21:31 PM

[up][up].........

What?

[up]

That's what I said!

edited 19th Mar '15 3:21:53 PM by HandsomeRob

One Strip! One Strip!
Shlugo_the_great King of Burgers from Far Far Away (On A Trope Odyssey) Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#12275: Mar 19th 2015 at 3:28:47 PM

...........

God. Fucking. Dammit.

.......No. Just no.

..........

ALJSLFJSALKJFSLDKJFSLDKJFS!@#!@$@#%#$^#$^$#^%$&%^*%^$%^#;FAKLSFJWEKLNFALKWENFNWEANFEWKGNWEKL

WHY WOULD YOU DO THAT?

edited 19th Mar '15 3:30:12 PM by HandsomeRob

One Strip! One Strip!

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