I thought Grandpa Gohan's power level would have been 140.
Goku's as a Great Ape would have been 100 exactly. Max.
Heavy as balls.
Krillin is stronger than 99% of all Saiyans that ever lived.
Yamcha is probably stronger than 99% of all Saiyans that ever lived.
edited 18th Mar '15 3:35:30 PM by unnoun
Look, I just don't like how Gohan's abilities are being written out in favor of handing them to Goku and Vegeta. Yes I know they train more than Gohan does, yes I know Gohan doesn't put forth any effort towards realizing his fighting potential. I understand all of this.
But that doesn't mean I gotta like or be satisfied with it. But it is what it is.
A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.So, in Xenoverse, Mentor!Frieza mentions having lost because he underestimated the Saiyans, and not making the same mistake, and making the player character a minion to fight with him.
He might only say this if the player is a Saiyan, not sure.
But anyway.
Is the mentor in Toki Toki City a Revival of F resurrected version of Frieza?
He doesn't have a halo.
Goku was born as a low-class Saiyan, in a meritocracy that measures one's worth at birth. We can assume that the social standing of the rest of Goku's family was irrelevant when classifying him as "low-class". So no, Goku isn't naturally gifted, he earned his power, whether by training or finding the right power-up (the Zenkais might be the exception, and even then, it's an option that's open for other Saiyans).
And I'm pretty sure that Vegeta's epiphany regarding Goku's strength had much more to do with their personalities than genes: Vegeta admitted Goku was stronger because he had the right attitude. Vegeta believed this was something he would never be able to match.
Just being a Saiyan isn't enough, but it is almost a requirement to get that strong.
Goku was classed as a low class by birth, but even Gohan had a pathetic power level to begin with. That classification means nothing, Goku is superbly special.
Also, Gohan not training isn't the reason Goku (and possibly Vegeta) are stronger than him now.
Strength is basically a result of specialness and training. Goku's specialness and training previously didn't result in him being as strong as Gohan... so his specialness got increased.
That's it. He outright said in BOG that training wouldn't do it, so he went the God route, got to keep it because special, and surpassed Gohan's prime well before training with Whis.
Gohan's lack of training is just a means to strip his power (including a form that was never a result of training...) so he can be sidelined further. It wasn't even needed for Goku/Vegeta to get stronger.
Oh, and Goku earned his power ups? Nope. He didn't know how Zenkai worked, so that was a fluke that makes up the majority of his Namek arc power, he did nothing to earn Super Saiyan, he drank magic water to get strong enough to beat Daimao, and he did the God ritual to face Beerus. Now most of his power can be boiled down to God power, which he didn't earn.
edited 18th Mar '15 7:17:12 PM by Saiga
I can't agree with this whole "special" line of thought. While it may play out like that sometimes, it really plays against the themes that the show and manga had.
Really, its more along the lines that Goku and Vegeta are practicing the old shonen standby of trying really hard and never giving up. That's kind of "the thing" most of the time.
Yeah. Being a saiyan was 100% necessary from at least Cell onwards, but Gohan was the only saiyan that was espoused as being overly, naturally special. Even Super Saiyan God isn't that special. There didn't seem to be any stipulation that said they couldn't repeat the process for everyone else other than the weird situation with fetus!Pan. It looks like Vegeta has it in the new movie.
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Quick question: Why do I keep seeing insistance that this is a Vegeta movie? I know Toriyama said he wanted to do a story about Vegeta, but I don't think this is it. The promotional material has barely included him. Is there something I'm missing?
edited 18th Mar '15 8:02:39 PM by Zeromaeus
Keep in mind Goku & Vegeta are only as strong as they are not only because they train constantly, but because of their inherent genes. How many times do we have bring up the Zenkai's and Super Saiyan multipliers, those are the only reasons the Saiyans become so absurdly overpowered.
If simply training made you that strong, then why is Tien still vastly weaker than every Saiyan despite spending all of his time doing nothing but Training?
That's all there is to it; I kind of see a fallacy running around in Shonen that the main characters are special because of how strong they are, when its the other way around in fact, they're strong because they're special and they're special because they're the main character :V
That's pretty much why Goku stays ahead of Vegeta the entire series, why Gohan is getting shafted now. Goku's The Hero and therefore the strongest by proxy. Not that he doesn't train like everyone else, but because he's the main character his training will always be more effective and produce better results than anyone else regardless.
As for the second question, aside from getting equal billing with Goku on the poster and also being trained by Whis along with Goku, nothing much really.
edited 18th Mar '15 8:28:14 PM by BlackYakuzu94
A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.Dragon Ball never had that kind of theme. It started out with children developing super powers and then using those to brute force more skilled masters who dedicated their life to the art, some of which retired or become obsessed with revenge. I bet Chappa killed himself after the second time.
I was actually going to bring up Ten vs Kuririn. A confirmed case of hard work failing to match someone who slacked off after a free powerup.
From Wikipedia:
"Umami /uːˈmɑːmi/, a savory taste, is one of the five basic tastes (together with sweet, sour, bitter and salty).
A loanword from the Japanese (うま味?), umami can be translated as "pleasant savory taste". This particular writing was chosen by Professor Kikunae Ikeda from umai (うまい) "delicious" and mi (味) "taste". The kanji 旨味 are used for a more general sense of a food as delicious.
People taste umami through receptors for glutamate, commonly found in its salt form as the food additive monosodium glutamate (MSG). For that reason, scientists consider umami to be distinct from saltiness."
edited 18th Mar '15 9:57:53 PM by Ssj3Gojira
Let's see if you can get past my Beelzemon. Mephiles, WARP SHINKA!

Just being a Saiyan isn't enough, Saiga. Otherwise, Raditz would've stomped Freeza.
himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari