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BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#11926: Mar 16th 2015 at 3:13:13 PM

Goku's talented.

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
Shlugo_the_great King of Burgers from Far Far Away (On A Trope Odyssey) Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
King of Burgers
#11927: Mar 16th 2015 at 3:14:54 PM

"Let me teach you a technique I can't even use myself."

How does he even know this shit works if no one was ever able to use it?

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#11929: Mar 16th 2015 at 3:16:50 PM

I don't. Ultimately, the Kaioken's just a multiplier, and by series' end, it's not even a very good one. It's physically detrimental to the user for every second that it's active, and the absolute most it has ever managed to achieve is a very brief x20, tanked by Frieza to demonstrate how So Last Season the Kaioken was even as far back as the Frieza Saga. With Saiyans throwing around x400 transformations and the insane power increases of Fusion and Hidden Potential Unlocking, the Kaioken is an artifact of little worth anymore.

While Androids 17 and 18 are certainly more shafted than most in terms of options due to their inability to use ki, I'm not convinced the Kaioken would help them all that much. They would need Kaioken x8 just to match Goku's Super Saiyan 3 if he still had his battle power from the Cell Saga pre-RoSaT, and they'd have to deal with the move burning up their bodies, which none of the other combatants have as a drawback. At this point, whether for the humans, the Androids, or Piccolo, the Kaioken is just too little, too late.

If the Androids really want to become relevant again, my suggestion is that 17 and 18 learn the Fusion Dance.

EDIT: ...although now that I think about it, Piccolo might actually be able to get some mileage out of it as a combination of his high battle power AND his biological regeneration abilities counteracting the physical strain. Hmm....

EDIT EDIT: ...no, while he's probably post-Buu still 3-4x Goku's battle power, he'd still have to compete with x50 and x100 Gokus. Even at its absolute unprecedented best, the Kaioken's multiplier is just too low even before taking into account Super Saiyan 3, Ultimate Gohan, and the Fusion characters.

edited 16th Mar '15 3:20:54 PM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#11930: Mar 16th 2015 at 3:27:02 PM

I was specifically talking about the thing where the Kaioken was a thing King Kai invented but also simultaneously couldn't do himself.

That is one of the most asinine things.

Ever.

EDIT: Cell with the Kaioken would have been monstrous though.

I mean. Shit, he could probably ramp it up so much the strain would almost kill him, heal from it, then get a motherfucking zenkai.

edited 16th Mar '15 3:28:10 PM by unnoun

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#11931: Mar 16th 2015 at 3:29:09 PM

Ah. That's fair.

I suppose it's more fitting to say Kaio-sama concepted the Kaioken than that he invented it. He came up with an idea that made sense in theory but that he was never able to get working right.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#11932: Mar 16th 2015 at 3:34:36 PM

Still ridiculous.

...I think the idea of Cell getting zenkais from the kaioken is amazing.

edited 16th Mar '15 3:34:59 PM by unnoun

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#11933: Mar 16th 2015 at 3:36:20 PM

I thought he could use it, he just couldn't use it to it's full potential. It wouldn't make any sense for him to not be able to use it, how else is he even supposed to know about what he is talking?

BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#11934: Mar 16th 2015 at 3:40:07 PM

Yea, I think the idea is that King Kai(That's what I'm used to calling him and that's what I'm using) can use the Kaioken, but not as efficiently as Goku was able to.

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#11935: Mar 16th 2015 at 3:41:18 PM

[up]

Makes sense to me. He came up with it, but couldn't use it to it's full potential due to the strain perhaps.

It's possible to create something, but not be the one who best utilizes it. Think of it as the martial arts version of My Real Daddy.

One Strip! One Strip!
unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#11936: Mar 16th 2015 at 3:42:18 PM

And, actually, given how durable Frieza's race is, it'd probably take Cell a kaioken of times 1000 or some shit for him to start to feel the strain. Ten times that for it to put him on death's door.

Like.

Shit, this is an amazing concept.

Cell is kind of broken. Gloriously so.

[up] He is literally a god! What strain!?

edited 16th Mar '15 3:42:53 PM by unnoun

BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#11937: Mar 16th 2015 at 3:44:07 PM

Gods in Dragon Ball aren't necessarily the strongest of fighters. Beerus(and Whis) are the exception to the rule as the protagonists easily surpass every known deity in the series by the end.

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#11938: Mar 16th 2015 at 3:45:55 PM

That isn't even what I'm talking about.

It is not at all an issue of fighting strength.

edited 16th Mar '15 3:48:16 PM by unnoun

BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#11939: Mar 16th 2015 at 3:48:13 PM

I mean who says they aren't bound by limits either :V

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#11940: Mar 16th 2015 at 3:49:56 PM

If a god can have a heart attack, I mean.

Shit, what does King Yemma even do then!?

Shlugo_the_great King of Burgers from Far Far Away (On A Trope Odyssey) Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
King of Burgers
#11941: Mar 16th 2015 at 3:50:58 PM

If only Piccolo didn't run out of Nameks to fuse with. Or at least got a Super transformation too, instead of just deciding to call himself a Super Namek.

LordofLore Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Consider his love an honor
#11942: Mar 16th 2015 at 3:54:23 PM

All info on DLC Pack 1 coming TOMORROW.

  • 3 new playables characters (Kid Goku GT, Trunks GT and Pan)
  • 1 new stage (Planet Tuffle)
  • 5 new costumes, 3 new accessories, 9 new Z-souls
  • 2 new Masters (Tien and Yamcha)
  • 15 new special moves to be learned from Tien and Yamcha
  • 4 Time Patrol Quests and 3 Parallel Quests

edited 16th Mar '15 3:56:46 PM by LordofLore

unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#11943: Mar 16th 2015 at 3:55:10 PM

2 new Masters (Tien and Yamcha)

...I think I'm good, thanks.

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#11944: Mar 16th 2015 at 4:04:13 PM

[up]

Are you forgetting the Solar Flare / Taiyouken? One of the best moves in the whole series.

It's continued to be useful well into the Cell saga, with only the Buu series never using it.

The Tri-Beam / Kikoho is another one. It allowed someone as weak as Tien to actually stall Cell. Imagine it being used by a more powerful character.

edited 16th Mar '15 4:04:30 PM by HandsomeRob

One Strip! One Strip!
unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#11946: Mar 16th 2015 at 4:10:24 PM

........

I'm not ready to concede the point yet.

It has nothing to do with me being stubborn.

One Strip! One Strip!
unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#11947: Mar 16th 2015 at 4:11:18 PM

I mean.

I can't help but notice you not singing the praises of the Wolf Fang Fist and/or Spirit Ball.

...Could we have gotten someone else?

Anyone else?

Hercule is a better choice because he has better friends. Where Yamcha has a shapeshifting cat, Hercule has a shapeshifting bubblegum monster. And his skills are at least useful for winning hearts and minds/entertainment value. I mean. One of the things I'm liking with Hercule's training is the way he advises you on how to work a crowd. Which is actually amazingly useful considering its how he saved the damn world.

Yamcha's just sorta there because he joined the gang early.

edited 16th Mar '15 4:18:42 PM by unnoun

Rinsankajugin Since: Feb, 2012
#11948: Mar 16th 2015 at 4:13:03 PM

Pan is a secret master if that helps.

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#11950: Mar 16th 2015 at 4:16:34 PM

Ten is actually useful, he gives you a z-soul that makes you immune to the Kamehameha.


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