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LOLypop1224 ...what am I even DOING here? Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
...what am I even DOING here?
#11151: Feb 26th 2015 at 7:04:05 PM

Either way, Goku is most definitely not the perfect hero. And I think that's what I like about Dragon Ball. Goku isn't Superman. He'll make mistakes. Sometimes I wish he was punished for them more, but you take what you can get.

Something like Piccolo's What the Hell, Hero? speech was always refreshing to me.

The *Legendary* Super Saiyan is motivated by a crying infant! He is a literal giant f***ing baby!
SonOfSharknado Love is Love is Love Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Love is Love is Love
#11152: Feb 26th 2015 at 7:04:53 PM

His logic was still kinda sound, though. "I'll let him get to 100 percent, then kick his ass again. It'll demoramalize him!"

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TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#11153: Feb 26th 2015 at 7:05:40 PM

That logic only works if you're planning on not killing him, which Goku was, which was also stupid; he gave Frieza two separate opportunities to quit fighting and just go, because Goku does that.

Dying is usually pretty demoralizing, unless you're Vegeta.

edited 26th Feb '15 7:06:38 PM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#11154: Feb 26th 2015 at 7:37:29 PM

Him not bothering to kill Frieza was questionable.

I don't have much else to say truthfully. I think all the angles have been covered.

One Strip! One Strip!
BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#11155: Feb 26th 2015 at 8:34:58 PM

He didn't kill Freeza because he wanted to rub it in his face that he lost, he says it word for word. Freeza was just too prideful to know when he's beat and insisted on prolonging the fight even tho he had no chance of winning.

Goku let Freeza go 100% because he was more or less completely consumed by his natural saiyan instincts of wanting a great fight. Being a recently awakened Super Saiyan and all.

edited 26th Feb '15 8:35:32 PM by BlackYakuzu94

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
Manaic Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#11156: Feb 26th 2015 at 9:12:56 PM

Freiza should have just left and trained for a couple months.

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#11157: Feb 26th 2015 at 9:52:49 PM

Also, since Goku can sense ki and do basic math (after Roshi taught him) he already knew he'd win. Freeza made the exact power up very clear for him.

but Namek exploding does make it dumb.

IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#11158: Feb 26th 2015 at 10:22:02 PM

Goku: "So... you're at half power now, right?"

Freeza: "Yeah. If you let me, I'll show you my real power!"

Goku: *thinking "His half is less than my half. Therefore, his full has to be less than my full!"

And then Goku won.

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#11159: Feb 27th 2015 at 1:29:37 AM

If Goten and Trunks were traumatized they sure didn't act like it with their "lol lets save super saiyan 3 for the last minute" that they decided when training together.

I distinctly remember there being crying.

Oh look I was right.

And it does kinda make sense that they'd want to make Buu suffer psychologically.

Saiyans react to grief weirdly.

LordofLore Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Consider his love an honor
#11160: Feb 27th 2015 at 4:48:10 AM

Original character do not steal!

Meatballs was the most swedish food I could come up with.

unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
JonnasN from Porto, Portugal Since: Jul, 2012
#11162: Feb 27th 2015 at 5:26:09 AM

It's weird to call Goku mistakes "assholish" when he's just operating on weird notions of honour and trust. Letting Frieza live made some sense, since, well, it worked for that other evil bald alien emperor of evil that Goku demoramalized. He gave Cell a senzu (without hesitation) because he thought Gohan would appreciate a challenge (though part of it was also a show of respect to Cell's fighting ability). The decision to fight with Majin Vegeta was a hotheaded one. Crushing the potara was a biased, short-sighted decision, but at least he was confident in his victory.

Just saying, Hanlon's Razor

edited 27th Feb '15 5:26:24 AM by JonnasN

LordofLore Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Consider his love an honor
#11163: Feb 27th 2015 at 5:33:46 AM

[up][up]All the good ones are already taken. sad

BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#11164: Feb 27th 2015 at 5:53:48 AM

[up][up]Keep in mind the only reason Goku spared Piccolo and Vegeta was just because he wanted a rival who could constantly push him to his limits, nothing more. Purely selfish reasons. Freeza did not fall under that category, because like I said, Goku spared him only for the sake of Cruel Mercy. Everything else is just that Saiyan pride kicking in. Goku's mistakes aren't intentionally dickish, but they are incredibly shortsighted and don't really consider the consequences of his actions.

edited 27th Feb '15 5:54:40 AM by BlackYakuzu94

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#11165: Feb 27th 2015 at 7:51:45 AM

[up] That.

Goku regularly endangers the planet Earth for short-sighted and selfish reasons. That his short-sighted selfishness tends to be rewarded rather than punished like Vegeta's is just luck.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
JonnasN from Porto, Portugal Since: Jul, 2012
#11166: Feb 27th 2015 at 8:27:24 AM

[up][up]Goku spared Piccolo Jr. because of the link with Kami and the Dragon Balls, he explicitly says this. Cruel Mercy nothing, Freeza begged to be saved, and Goku granted it. You have a point with Vegeta, though, by all means, it was a bad decision.

I'd say every single one of those cases have something in common, though: Goku's character trait of not liking to kill people. He is really fond of sparing opponents, but only after training with Kami. Saying he spared everyone due to Saiyan pride is a gross oversimplification, as he showed absolutely no inclination to do this back when he was a child (nor do most Saiyans, who are fond of killing). Tao Pai Pai, Demon King Piccolo and his minions were difficult opponents during their time and Goku killed them without a second thought (as far he knew, anyway). Character growth made him into someone who is willing to spare the lives of the lowliest of Freeza minions, and give second chances to chaotic forces like Buu.

(Cell is the exception, but we've talked before about the rushed, inconsistent writing in that arc)

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#11167: Feb 27th 2015 at 8:45:48 AM

Frieza begging to be saved was the second time Goku spared him. The first time was when he powered down and told Frieza that his 100% was bleeding power like a sieve and it was no longer possible for him to win, so Goku was going to let him walk away and live with the shame of being defeated and knowing that there exists a greater power than his. It was a Cruel Mercy that Frieza rejected by continuing the fight.

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LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#11168: Feb 27th 2015 at 9:48:19 AM

Something that's been pointed out to me is that Goku's aversion to killing only came about when he was an adult. You have to wonder what happened during his off-screen time that made him care about that when taking into consideration people like Frieza.

IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#11169: Feb 27th 2015 at 10:08:27 AM

Most likely the training with Kami made him a lot less wild.

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#11170: Feb 27th 2015 at 11:06:40 AM

Early-Installment Weirdness and Characterization Marches On?

I mean Vegeta was a lot more calm prior to the Android arc.

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#11171: Feb 27th 2015 at 1:25:36 PM

Cell being the exception isn't weird. He has pissed off when Freeza begged him the second time, and actually saddened when Freeza lashed out again. After that, he says to Trunks he would have just killed Freeza if he fought him again.

Basically, Freeza broke Goku's mercy.


@unnoun Crying =/= traumatized. They had 2 weeks of training and just got over it.

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#11172: Feb 27th 2015 at 1:26:09 PM

edited 27th Feb '15 1:26:29 PM by Saiga

Demongodofchaos2 Face me now, bitch! from In a Cultivation World (Ancient one) Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Face me now, bitch!
#11173: Feb 27th 2015 at 4:54:36 PM

@ Lord Of Lore: Even Frozen Meat? tongue

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Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#11174: Feb 27th 2015 at 5:11:35 PM

For my eventual Freeza race character, I can't decide between Fridge, Coolbox, or Chillybin.

SonOfSharknado Love is Love is Love Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Love is Love is Love
#11175: Feb 27th 2015 at 5:13:11 PM

Those might be taken.

I'll just call him Joe. :p

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