TVTropes Now available in the app store!
Open

Follow TV Tropes

Following

Dragon Ball

Go To

BaconManiac5000 Since: Nov, 2013 Relationship Status: Baby don't hurt me!
#11051: Feb 23rd 2015 at 9:17:53 PM

Wait, I have a question.

Did the Funimation or Ocean dub come first?

what do you mean I didn't win, I ate more wet t-shirts than anyone else
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#11052: Feb 23rd 2015 at 9:19:48 PM

Ocean.

edited 23rd Feb '15 9:20:02 PM by LSBK

BaconManiac5000 Since: Nov, 2013 Relationship Status: Baby don't hurt me!
#11053: Feb 23rd 2015 at 9:21:35 PM

Aha, knew it.

what do you mean I didn't win, I ate more wet t-shirts than anyone else
IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#11054: Feb 23rd 2015 at 9:22:03 PM

That was the one that did the Mondo Cool line, wasn't it?

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
SonOfSharknado Love is Love is Love Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Love is Love is Love
#11055: Feb 23rd 2015 at 9:22:44 PM

I remember watching it first back in the day. Then at some point, it changed to Funimation. I even had the VHS of the first couple episodes, which was the Ocean dub.

My various fanfics.
Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#11056: Feb 23rd 2015 at 9:28:49 PM

LSBK: Yamcha would have to find a pretty big Saibaman if he wanted to blow up the Earth.

edited 23rd Feb '15 9:29:27 PM by Anomalocaris20

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
LOLypop1224 ...what am I even DOING here? Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
...what am I even DOING here?
#11057: Feb 23rd 2015 at 9:33:56 PM

Ooh! Speaking of that...

Why didn't Majin Buu blowing himself up destroy the Earth? Heck, why didn't Vegeta blowing himself up destroy the Earth?

The *Legendary* Super Saiyan is motivated by a crying infant! He is a literal giant f***ing baby!
IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#11058: Feb 23rd 2015 at 9:41:59 PM

Put simply?

Vegeta is not an idiot. Not all the time, at least.

edited 23rd Feb '15 9:42:08 PM by IAmNotCreativeEnough

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
Raven666 I'd totally hug you if that was something I did from Everywhere and Nowhere. I'm watching you. Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
I'd totally hug you if that was something I did
#11059: Feb 23rd 2015 at 11:45:31 PM

Totally not relevant to the current discussion but wanted to ask one question about Xenoverse since i'll be getting my copy in a few hours, 5 hours and 15 minutes to be semi-exact. Do you have to unlock items for Custom Characters or is everything pretty much available from the start? I've got an idea for a female Saiyan and am hoping I won't have to spend a few hours unlocking things until i'm happy with her outfit. Also, does anyone know if there's a ponytail hair option?

What started out as a pleasant afternoon of drugs and surgery has not gone as planned.
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#11060: Feb 24th 2015 at 5:31:06 AM

By the Saiyan saga, we reached a point where even "just training" doesn't just adds tens or twenties, it has the potential to multiply power levels by values of around 10 in months. Were any special techniques confirmed as being used by Kami and Popo on the lookout, where the humans got boosted from 100-200 to ca. 1,000 each? And by the time the training with King Kai was done with, Chiaotzu was likely a helluva lot stronger training partner than Kami or Popo.

It's less than a 10 fold increase over the course of roughly a year. And it was explained that God was directly overseeing their training that time, and that they had each other as sparring partners (and weren't too far apart in strength). Chaozu might've surpassed God or Popo, but he'd still be too weak compared to Tenshinhan. He won't be a good training partner if he's always 1/3 of Ten's strength.

There's also the fact that training in peace time doesn't amount to much improvement compared to training in preparation to fight a threat. Ten trains for the Androids that way, but so does Kuririn. After that, it's just training for training's sake.

The characters' powerlevels increase faster the higher they are.

Absolutely incorrect. The gains they make from training slow down as they get stronger, but they continue to up the training methods they use to get even better results. The biggest power ups usually comes from crap like Zenkais.

If being stronger made for better gains, than the Android arc training would've meant Goku would get many times stronger when it didn't make a difference. The same goes for the Boo arc training - 7 straight years of Goku training after his power level got enormous, and... he doesn't improve all that much in the same form.

It took stuff like moving to Kaio's planet, 100x gravity + zenkai abuse, mastering Super Saiyan, to get huge gains. But they also outgrow their training and don't benefit from the same methods as much as they did when they're weaker.

Which means that yes, I do expect Tien to have caught up in the ten years of time there was between Freeza's death and Majin Buu's death, particularly given that Tien trained for all ten years whereas Krillin pretty much stopped after Cell, and if not, then not much later.

There's absolutely no basis for this, though. Ten's just doing mountain training, which has shown to be ineffective at this stage, and Kuririn had a big lead. There's simply no foundation for Ten's growth after this point.

If Toriyama had chosen for Ten to surpass Kuririn through his continued training, then that would make sense to me.

But it makes just as much sense to me that Tenshinhan simply hadn't closed the gap yet, since it was a large gap and Ten's not doing anything particularly noteworthy in his training any more.

[up] You have all of the physical features unlocked from the start, and have the default outfit. You'll either have to purchase all costumes and accessories after that or get them as random prizes from battles.

So if your specific look included clothes, yes you're going to have to unlock stuff. If you were talking about physical features, you have all that to begin with.


Also found out two things: Shenron's wish can reset your stats so you can change your character's build (yay) and you can start collecting the Dragon Balls as soon as you beat Raditz. That is really good news for me, it means I can play my Saiyan character the way I intended - create them in base form, then around the Android/Cell arc re-customise them as a Super Saiyan to make the cutscenes and battles after that be a little less of a stretch.

Oh yeah and for those worried about Rainbow Pimp Gear, it's actually unlikely that will be a problem. All equipment is part of a larger costume, and those costumes all have a consistent theme for their stats. So the most optimal choice is likely wearing an entire costume, which would look fine aesthetically.

From what I've seen I think you unlock/buy costumes as the full set rather than individual pieces, so you won't wind up in the situation where you have Rainbow Pimp Gear because you're missing pieces of the full costume.

edited 24th Feb '15 5:38:42 AM by Saiga

Raven666 I'd totally hug you if that was something I did from Everywhere and Nowhere. I'm watching you. Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
I'd totally hug you if that was something I did
#11061: Feb 24th 2015 at 6:20:46 AM

That's good, I hate when games lock things like hairstyles and crap. Outfits I don't mind unlocking, that's actually fun for me. Guess it's time to buy the season pass and get started with this shit!

What started out as a pleasant afternoon of drugs and surgery has not gone as planned.
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#11062: Feb 24th 2015 at 6:22:21 AM

That's exactly how I feel on the unlocking.

IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#11063: Feb 24th 2015 at 8:58:45 AM

@Saiga

'Absolutely incorrect' is absolutely incorrect.

The Characters do increase in power faster the stronger they are.

Goku started his training with Kami when he was much weaker than Tien, Yamcha, Krillin and Chiaotzu were. And guess what? Tien, Yamcha, Krillin and Chiaotzu got a significantly bigger boost in less time than what Goku got. Oh, sure, you can chalk that up to them having sparring partners, but when it comes down to it, Tien always has a sparring partner.

And even if Chiaotzu is much weaker than Tien at any given time and thus not that good a sparring partner... Tien knows multiform. He is his own sparring partner.

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#11064: Feb 24th 2015 at 12:58:27 PM

Hard to believe Krillin is stronger than Vegeta when he arrived on Earth. Namek power levels got ridiculous. No wonder they stopped calculating them after that.

He's also stronger than Dodoria and Zarbon combined, Nail, and four out of five Ginyus individually. He's halfway between the strongest non-Captain Ginyu and Base Goku when he arrived on Namek.

Can Yamcha can blow up the planet?

The weakest character to demonstrate planet-busting ability is Saiyan Saga Vegeta at a battle power of 18,000, which is substantially higher than Tien and Yamcha's last recorded battle powers. While no evidence exists that Tien and Yamcha could not blow up a planet, no evidence exists that they could, either, and their battle powers fall a long ways short.

As much as we're arguing over whether or not Tien ever surpassed Krillin, I'd like to see evidence he even surpassed Saiyan Saga Vegeta. Tien never took advantage of any advanced power-up options in the series. Krillin did. It's really just that simple.

If you want to believe they can, go ahead, but it's unsupported. Maybe by series' end, and that's still a very reluctant maybe.

edited 24th Feb '15 1:00:35 PM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#11065: Feb 24th 2015 at 1:26:38 PM

On example does not trump the multiples I gave. Especially when the foundation for it is wrong.

Goku was stronger when starting that training than any of the humans (he was 260 to Ten's 250). That's not why they levelled up so quickly.

The reason is actually given in the series itself - God trained them directly, whereas Popo trained Goku because God planned on defeating Piccolo Jnr himself. The sparring partners part does matter, as Chaozu isn't nearly as strong as Yamcha/Kuririn and so doesn't provide Ten as much of a challenge.

Multi-form weakens Ten. Probably not all that efficient for training, unless the gains from each body transferred to the original. Which there is no evidence for, since it was never seen used that way and every time he is shown training he's not using it.

edited 24th Feb '15 1:28:37 PM by Saiga

Demongodofchaos2 Face me now, bitch! from In a Cultivation World (Ancient one) Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Face me now, bitch!
#11066: Feb 24th 2015 at 1:30:05 PM

Basically, Naruto's Shadow Clones are essentialy What Ten could benefit from if he could mimic the effects with Multiform.

Watch Symphogear
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#11067: Feb 24th 2015 at 1:38:32 PM

Yeah, but I don't think the multi form clones have that ability. The Shadow Clones are pretty much just better aside from their One-Hit Wonder status.

Flexibility in number summoned, information transfer, only dividing chakra instead of physical ability, etc.

IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#11068: Feb 24th 2015 at 1:48:54 PM

So... let me get this straight.

Basically, because Krillin took one artificial power up once, it means that he should still be much, much more powerful than Tien is.

However, beyond that powerup, Krillin never engaged in any sort of super training, at least, not that I can recall.

You said it yourself. 'Just training', which is what Krillin does, would have him hit a plateau eventually. But he doesn't, does he? And in fact, he gets loads stronger. After all, he went from somewhere around ten to twenty thousand back at Namek to 'strong enough to actually see Goku and Cell move at the Cell Games', even though he could only follow their movements while they were playing around.

If the power didn't increase faster the stronger you are, then Krillin would still be at that level, since he'd be increasing at the rate he increased his power back in Dragon Ball, which is a few dozen points per year.

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
FOFD Since: Apr, 2013
#11069: Feb 24th 2015 at 1:55:04 PM

Going to throw something onto the fire: what did you guys think of the Goku vs Superman Death Battle? Accurate/inaccurate?

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#11070: Feb 24th 2015 at 1:59:44 PM

See, you keep ignoring the details. Stop trying to boil it down to "one power up vs training" because there are various levels of power up and various levels of training. You're comparing a big power up to the lowest form of training.

Being able to follow a fight can't be used as evidence of anything, otherwise the spectators for the tournaments are increasing in strength faster than the heroes because they get better at following the action. It's horribly inconsistent, so unless a point is explicitly made about it (Vegeta seeing Freeza's attack and that being pointed out for hype) it really can't be used.

[up] horrendously inaccurate but they got the result right.

edited 24th Feb '15 2:00:35 PM by Saiga

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
LOLypop1224 ...what am I even DOING here? Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
...what am I even DOING here?
#11072: Feb 24th 2015 at 2:03:56 PM

Considering I don't nitpick about power levels or anything like that, I kinda liked it. Fun fact: the first time I watched it, I knew next to NOTHING about Dragon Ball. God, I really AM new to this!

The *Legendary* Super Saiyan is motivated by a crying infant! He is a literal giant f***ing baby!
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#11073: Feb 24th 2015 at 2:10:41 PM

Basically, because Krillin took one artificial power up once, it means that he should still be much, much more powerful than Tien is.

Yes.

I think you're sorely underestimating the effects that "one artificial power up" had. Krillin is explicitly one of the strongest warriors in the entire universe, not just on Earth. He is more powerful than the mutants who comprise an elite force made up of the strongest warriors in the universe, who themselves have powers vastly superior to what even the strongest and most dedicated members of their race could achieve through the kind of training that Tien spends the rest of his career doing.

Krillin's battle power is well beyond what is attainable by ordinary methods, even with Dragon Ball's loose definition of "ordinary".

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Ssj3Gojira Arashi Shigehito from The Event Horizon Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Arashi Shigehito
#11074: Feb 24th 2015 at 2:22:07 PM

About the 40 tons thing for Goku in the Death Battle, does no one remember that he pushed a 20 ton boulder like 5-10 feet as far back as his training with Roshi? You're telling me that despite the fact that his power level most likely increased by 800,000 times what it was when he was training with Roshi, that his physical strength only doubled? Anyone see the error in logic in this?

Let's see if you can get past my Beelzemon. Mephiles, WARP SHINKA!
IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#11075: Feb 24th 2015 at 2:29:31 PM

So I keep ignoring the details? how?

I'm not comparing a big powerup with the lowest form of training. I'm saying that Krillin had that big powerup that gave him a significant lead, but under the terms you gave, that is that just training becomes less effective the more powerful you are, it'd be easier for Tien to catch up than it'd be for Krillin to leave him in the dust. Because their training is not all that different, but Tien would get much bigger returns for his time than Krillin does until they hit the same ballpark.

And well, it's almost certain that Tien trains more and harder than Krillin does. Being a martial artist hermit is kind of Tien's thing.

[up][up]Krillin was thoroughly owned by Recoome, with little to no effort. Krillin is not a saiyan, he didn't get stronger from getting nearly killed by Recoome.

While it's true that he is one of the most powerful warriors in the universe at the Namek Saga, with a powerlevel that's unimaginably immense for mostly everyone not on Earth, he's not actually 'immensely' stronger than Tien is.

Incidentally, the warriors in Freeza's army knew how to use ki, but they clearly just saw it as a weapon and not much else, which probably explains why the Earthlings, who actually 'study' their ki and its uses more than Freeza's guys do, have an advantage in terms of growth.

edited 24th Feb '15 2:32:49 PM by IAmNotCreativeEnough

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari

Total posts: 130,800
Top