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NapoleonDeCheese Since: Oct, 2010
#10926: Feb 18th 2015 at 6:51:59 PM

Apparently, they kept Frieza in Hell surrounded by cute plush animals playing musical instruments, happy fairies, and adorable baby angels flying around his body contained in a coccoon.

Which is just oh so stupidly awesome.

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#10927: Feb 18th 2015 at 6:59:43 PM

And now you're twisting my words, because my last post wasn't saying that either.

Saying it wasn't so much his strength = wrong.

BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#10928: Feb 18th 2015 at 7:01:39 PM

How can it be wrong if it's a personal opinion :/

edited 18th Feb '15 7:02:13 PM by BlackYakuzu94

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
SonOfSharknado Love is Love is Love Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Love is Love is Love
#10929: Feb 18th 2015 at 7:02:51 PM

Well, I guess that would be Frieza's idea of Hell.

My various fanfics.
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#10930: Feb 18th 2015 at 7:03:58 PM

Cause it's not really an opinion. What makes Boo dangerous is based on what actually made him dangerous.

BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#10931: Feb 18th 2015 at 7:04:59 PM

Yes, and his regeneration is apart of that, so what's your beef?

You makin it seem like I said his strength didn't mean shit.

edited 18th Feb '15 7:05:22 PM by BlackYakuzu94

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
Rinsankajugin Since: Feb, 2012
#10932: Feb 18th 2015 at 7:17:10 PM

Of course all of them have high powerlevels, but remember: Goku and Vegeta trained for years and have Zenkai, Cell was made from many components of Z-Fighters + Frieza, Buu was made from energy-consuming dark magic and Beerus and Whis are literal gods.

Frieza is the only being that was naturally born into his high power, so his cocky ass could've benefited from training if he was smarter.

Cruherrx I say things. from my own little world Since: Apr, 2010 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
I say things.
#10933: Feb 18th 2015 at 7:32:31 PM

@Saiga, remember how much I hated DB Minus? wink

Toriyama's been doing a lot of nonsensical crap over the past year, and this is his last chance in my eyes.

"If you weren't so crazy I'd think you were insane."
Ssj3Gojira Arashi Shigehito from The Event Horizon Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Arashi Shigehito
#10934: Feb 18th 2015 at 9:26:16 PM

I would like to point out that Frieza got brought back in his weakest form; how long has it been since we've seen that?

Let's see if you can get past my Beelzemon. Mephiles, WARP SHINKA!
FOFD Since: Apr, 2013
#10935: Feb 18th 2015 at 9:35:37 PM

[up][up]I honestly wouldn't put your expectations that high. Just enjoy it as a punch-happy romp.

I've read rumors this way and that, Revival of F is supposed to have "more fight scenes" and be "really funny".

Of course all of them have high powerlevels, but remember: Goku and Vegeta trained for years and have Zenkai,

I could accept Frieza "training". I jus don't see the film jumping around to say, "And so Frieza was revived and trained for the next 5-10 years for his rematch with Goku."

Unless he finds a Gameshark some space equivalent of the Ultra Divine Water. I mean hey, Goku did zero training for that one, and it took him from not being able to handle Old King Piccolo, to punching a hole through him while he was in his prime.

Karnality Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
#10936: Feb 18th 2015 at 10:20:41 PM

I don't quit understand why this comes across as a continuity-breaking retcon for some people. Buu is a five million year old legend who's sealed and his current whereabouts are unknown. Comparing him to the Saiyans is ridiculous, since the last Super Saiyan existed a mere 1,000 years previous and any one of their race could potentially unlock that power. If there was a tribe of pink alien blobs that might be able to get as strong as Buu, then I could see Frieza caring, but otherwise no.

The only other people stronger than him are are actual gods, or in Dabura's case the ruler of an alternate realm.

Why didn't he train to defeat them? Well, maybe he was more preoccupied with becoming immortal since he was the strongest mortal fighter in the known universe already. Or maybe he was just busy, running a Galactic Empire is very time consuming. Without that on his shoulders now he can actually devote himself to training.

IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#10937: Feb 18th 2015 at 10:46:21 PM

Puh-lease, can you see Freeza doing any actual work? None in their right minds would oppose him since there's literally no way to actually do him any damage directly and it's obscenely risky to try to deal him any damage indirectly.

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#10938: Feb 18th 2015 at 11:28:03 PM

More translations are out, and Freeza says 4 months of training will be enough to instantly crush Goku who has surpassed Boo.

Yeaaaah, doesn't have the time my ass. That's simply way too much gain for the minimal effort involved.

LOLypop1224 ...what am I even DOING here? Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
...what am I even DOING here?
#10939: Feb 19th 2015 at 12:26:29 AM

Ehhh...I dunno, we can't just assume it's implausible right away. Did we forget how ridiculous Goku's power increased on the spaceship on Namek? In 6 days? Sure, he had Zenkai, it's not the same thing. But I feel like we won't get anywhere if we immediately start calling bullshit.

We can't assume that Freeza isn't going to get God Mode. After all, we still haven't heard about Beerus and Whis' contribution yet. Honestly, I'm just doing Suspension of Disbelief here. Sure, Freeza might get stronger in 4 months. Why the hell not? If it leads to a good fight...

The *Legendary* Super Saiyan is motivated by a crying infant! He is a literal giant f***ing baby!
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#10940: Feb 19th 2015 at 12:41:08 AM

We can totally assume that, because people are desperately comparing it to the most bullshit parts of the manga to try and defend it and still coming up short.

Goku trained in 100Gs, while giving himself multiple zenkais, and went from somewhere over 8,000 (post-Vegeta zenkai) to 90,000. It happened in 6 days because Zenkai don't take long to give yourself when you can instantly heal by scarfing Senzu beans.

On top of that, gravity training, Zenkai and senzu beans were all established before Goku started abusing them for fun and profit. Freeza has nothing established beforehand, the fact that he is a prodigy and that he has never trained before have only come up now when he needs it to get stronger.

Plus, it's made clear that the stronger you are the less gains you make unless you up your training methods, so using a far weaker Goku is a bad example. Goku's training slowed to a crawl once he mastered Super Saiyan, and we're told his base still isn't as strong as Freeza.

So beings weaker than Freeza are still so strong it's difficult from them to benefit from training.

But even if it were comparable, that doesn't make it acceptable. Yes, the original story took some pretty big liberties when it came to power ups. But those moments were among the weakest parts of the original, so to repeat those mistakes is sheer incompetence. Don't base your movie plots on the shitty parts of the original, learn. Improve. Do better.

Finally, God form is bullshit in a can.

LOLypop1224 ...what am I even DOING here? Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
...what am I even DOING here?
#10941: Feb 19th 2015 at 1:22:16 AM

Of course, this was going to happen as soon as we found out Freeza's coming back.

I'm just trying to suppress my negativity for now. It's easy to say this movie is Ruined Forever. But, hey, this is the first original DBZ content I've been able to follow without prior knowledge. I only started getting into the series around 2013. Perhaps I haven't seen enough disappointments yet. That's why I'm still optimistic.

edited 19th Feb '15 1:22:30 AM by LOLypop1224

The *Legendary* Super Saiyan is motivated by a crying infant! He is a literal giant f***ing baby!
Shlugo_the_great King of Burgers from Far Far Away (On A Trope Odyssey) Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
King of Burgers
#10942: Feb 19th 2015 at 3:56:22 AM

It just occurred to me.

... how the hell would Freeza even know how strong Goku would need to be to beat Buu? What, did the legend include Buu's precise power level?

Seriously, this is like picking holes in swiss cheese.

FOFD Since: Apr, 2013
#10943: Feb 19th 2015 at 5:34:10 AM

[up][up] Hold on.

You just started Dragonball two years ago? Wow.

[up](x5) Anyone have a link to these translations?

[up]

... how the hell would Freeza even know how strong Goku would need to be to beat Buu?

Does he?

The translation I saw only said that Frieza knew that Goku was strong enough to beat Buu. He just knows that Goku 'beat' Buu, he probably found out from Sorbet and the other guy.

edited 19th Feb '15 8:23:58 AM by FOFD

JonnasN from Porto, Portugal Since: Jul, 2012
#10944: Feb 19th 2015 at 5:36:47 AM

My personal theory is that Freeza found a Room of Space and Time for himself. 4 Months becomes multiple years for him to train and catch up. He can also find some Space Divine Water during his training. He knows roughly how strong Buu was by comparing him to the Kais (who he may have met at one point).

Failing all of that, heh, MST3K Mantra, it's just another DBZ film. In all honesty, it bothers me more that Krillin is bald again, as one of the things I really like about Dragon Ball is seeing characters grow and change.

@Sorting Algorithm: I thought the Androids made sense on the scale, at first. Goku was the most powerful being in the universe, and the Androids could absorb his own über-powerful Ki to use against him. Then that interesting idea was thrown out the window.

I like that GT at least tried to revisit this idea with Baby (who got strong by brainwashing all of earth into giving him some power, and could whip out an Evil Super Spirit Bomb) and Super C-17 (a generally improved version of C-19, who actually had a better thought-out weakness than "Super Vegeta's Kung Fu is stronger!". Too bad that everything else about him was so badly written).

FOFD Since: Apr, 2013
#10945: Feb 19th 2015 at 5:53:35 AM

[up] He does have a literal universe of potential alien mythos to exploit. Absurd power-ups aren't an impossibility.

Ooh, I'm kind of excited to see what Toriyama comes up with now.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#10946: Feb 19th 2015 at 7:29:20 AM

Goku's gains in the 100x Gravity Chamber amount to an 11.25x increase in his base power. If we allow Frieza the same gain, he can increase his battle power to 1.35 billion.

Saiga estimated Goku's battle power at around 80 million a while back, when we were talking about Goku's failure to surpass Frieza in base. Even if we ignore the God power-up, that would put his Super Saiyan transformation at 4 billion, which means Frieza still has a long ways to go to catch up - he would need to increase his power 33.3x just to match Goku's Super Saiyan form.

If Goku pushes himself to Super Saiyan 3, his power becomes 32 billion, requiring a 266.7x increase on Frieza's part - almost as great as the jump Piccolo made when he fused with Nail.

Now, when we take into consideration the intense gains Goku gained from absorbing Super Saiyan God - which puts him more powerful than his previous Super Saiyan 3 form while in Base, then multiply by his Super Saiyan transformations, the end result pushes Frieza's required gains from his training from 266x to "F*ck no."

Toriyama has suggested that Goku won't go higher than Super Saiyan 1 anymore. That means that as long as Goku has not increased his battle power since Battle of Gods, then all Frieza needs to do to compete is increase his battle power by a whopping 13,300x in order to be a fair match for the handicapped Goku, as opposed to the 106,400x increase that would be needed to go a couple rounds with Goku's Super Saiyan 3 transformation.

edited 19th Feb '15 7:34:33 AM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
alekos23 Since: Mar, 2013
#10947: Feb 19th 2015 at 8:19:18 AM

hence he's better off becoming a Go D's H-thing-that-Galactus-also-has.Herald.

FOFD Since: Apr, 2013
#10948: Feb 19th 2015 at 8:24:44 AM

[up] ...what?

Misread that, I thought you were referencing that TFS line and didn't see "herald" at the end.

Yeah, but if Frieza becomes Beerus's herald... why? Beerus didn't like Frieza. I mean, I guess he tolerated him. Maybe the plot could've been "Beerus uses the Dragonballs to revive Frieza and test Goku," but it doesn't seem to be going that way.

Maybe Beerus has a power-unlocking ability similar to Elder Kai's. But no, that would defeat Frieza saying "he needs to train" in the prequel manga. Of course, Elder Kai also called his technique "training" didn't he? Again, there's just any imaginary number of things Frieza could do.

Also, putting Frieza on a surfboard and turning him into a chrome-skinned god would just be silly. There's enough phallic imagery around him as it is.

EDIT: Beerus is pretty similar to Galactus, isn't he? Except Beerus doesn't need to eat, and it's not elaborated what his planet-destroying quota actually is (in fact, he went back to sleep without destroying any, so eh). Since he doesn't seem to need to and most of what we've seen him do was on a whim, maybe he would hire Frieza on as a herald and have him blow up planets in Beerus's stead. And of course, Frieza would pick Earth first.

And them the Mortal Kombat bullsh't starts and Frieza has to defeat a planet's strongest fighters before he's allowed to destroy it. [lol]

edited 19th Feb '15 8:31:38 AM by FOFD

FireShadow (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#10949: Feb 19th 2015 at 9:23:32 AM

Hate to break up the Freeza Power Creep debate but I'd just like to share this awesome video which shows the variations of combos for characters in Xenoverse.

Xenoverse Combo Video

Kickass, ain't it? smile

...

You may now resume your debate.

edited 19th Feb '15 9:23:53 AM by FireShadow

FOFD Since: Apr, 2013
#10950: Feb 19th 2015 at 10:05:05 AM

I must be the only person who doesn't get excited by combo videos. Yeah, it's cool to see more from the game I suppose, but people link combo vids and I'm just like, "Eh?" Devil May Cry, Revengeance, etc.

When I played Tekken as a kid, there were these ridiculous combos I could never figure out. Seeing someone else doing them never inspired me, just made me wonder how and when I would have time to do something that flashy.


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