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Rinsankajugin Since: Feb, 2012
#10726: Feb 10th 2015 at 10:59:02 PM

Ya know, I find it funny that Villainous Bardock was a thing before all the other Villainous characters. And yet, he's not in Xenoverse. Let's hope he appears later on through DLC or a sequel.

DoctorDiabolical So pure. Since: Mar, 2010
So pure.
#10727: Feb 11th 2015 at 6:00:49 AM

All the androids are now energy-absorbing types: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Ht1fHttsUQ

JonnasN from Porto, Portugal Since: Jul, 2012
#10728: Feb 11th 2015 at 8:04:14 AM

Why do people assume Cell was programmed? He's an artificially-made, but still organic, life form. He actually has a brain. He used to be a larva and everything.

Cell could not have been handled with understanding from the heroes. He was created by Dr.Gero, and shows no remorse in killing city after city. The same as Frieza, really. Plus, he strangled Alt!Trunks to steal the time machine in the first place. Not someone I'd trust.

I do like the idea that Cell could've become a neutral Blood Knight, though. Not a hero, since he has the cells of Frieza, King Cold, King Piccolo and Saiyan Saga!Vegeta, but a regular presence, nonetheless.

Then they would all be fucked when Babidi offers him the Majin boost.

Rinsankajugin Since: Feb, 2012
#10729: Feb 11th 2015 at 8:05:00 AM

Ah, so Krillin does have Kaioken. Oddly interesting.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#10730: Feb 11th 2015 at 8:51:45 AM

[up][up] Same as Vegeta, too. Remember when he mocked the Namekians over the village that didn't get to come back because he killed them instead of Frieza?

Cell is a sadistic, utterly remorseless killer, but the same can be said of Yamcha, Tien, Piccolo, Vegeta, Android 18, and Majin Buu when Goku meets each of them. Nearly all of the protagonists started as villains no better than Cell, and the deciding factor of what villains get to live to become protagonists and which ones die is purely circumstantial; Nappa, for instance, is dead not because he is more evil than Vegeta, but simply because he died. On the other hand, Vegeta, the most evil of all Saiyans we meet, lives to become Goku's rival because his death fell under the umbrella wish of "Killed by Frieza" where Nappa did not. Fortune keeps Vegeta around where his less evil - but still evil - underlings died and were forgotten.

There is no such thing as "too evil to reach out to" in this series. Goku even attempted to show mercy and reach out to the likes of Frieza and Buu, with varying effectiveness unrelated to who is "more evil". His pupil is an eldritch force of destruction and horror, his rival is a genocidal conqueror, and he shares parenting duties with the devil, the physical embodiment of pure evil.

Now, all that being said, I agree with you that Cell could not have been handled with understanding, just not for the same reason. It's not because he's too evil, it's because he didn't want "understanding". Cell wanted to fight. He is the sum of his parts and most if not all of those are battle-hungry egomaniacs. This is where circumstance comes into the picture. After Cell attained perfection, there are a million different directions he could have gone.

But he chose to fulfill his desire for violence in the stupidest way possible, hanging a noose around the Earth's neck as a way of persuading people, "Hey guys, come fight me!" when, really, most of them would have been happy to compete in the Cell Games without that threat. Whether it was because he wanted to enjoy the fights themselves and be challenged, or just because he wanted to flagellate his ego by flaunting his superiority over everyone elseHEY , the effect is the same: everyone would have come and fought him with or without the threat of genocide.

Thus, Cell manufactured a completely unnecessary Villainous Threat that did not actually benefit his goals in any way - largely because at this point, he was out of goals to benefit - for no other reason than to remain The Bad Guy. He hit the end of his purpose, achieved his objectives, but still needed to find a way to be unnecessarily villainous because the heroes hadn't triumphed over him yet.

edited 11th Feb '15 8:52:58 AM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#10731: Feb 11th 2015 at 8:52:01 AM

Cell has all the pride of Freeza and Vegeta. He'd never accept becoming a Majin. IIRC, it's implied Vegeta could've rejected it had he wanted to.

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#10732: Feb 11th 2015 at 8:55:12 AM

It's directly stated that Vegeta could have rejected it but allowed Babidi to awaken his power. And that Vegeta did reject the parts of it he didn't want, like the mind control. He cherry-picked the Majin power-up's effects.

edited 11th Feb '15 8:55:19 AM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Rinsankajugin Since: Feb, 2012
#10733: Feb 11th 2015 at 9:25:49 AM

Oooh, one of Goku's supers is the Kamehameheadbutt he used against Piccolo!

edited 11th Feb '15 9:26:03 AM by Rinsankajugin

JonnasN from Porto, Portugal Since: Jul, 2012
#10734: Feb 11th 2015 at 11:17:02 AM

Oh yeah, reaching out to Cell once the Cell games started? Sure, that would be totally possible. Gohan even tried, Kami bless him, he just didn't know the right way to go on about it.

I was thinking of Imperfect Cell when I posted that. No way the heroes would trust a Gero creation that killed Trunks to be honest about his reasons for wanting to achieve Perfect Form.

Back to the Cell games, when Cell vomited C-18, I can understand why he exploded, but after returning as Super Perfect Cell, that would've been a good opportunity for him to go "You have bettered me for now, Gohan, but you haven't heard the last from me!" and go travel the universe by himself, a bit like Piccolo Jr.

Logic then dictates that he eventually turns good by kidnapping Pan and training her in some planet tongue

edited 11th Feb '15 11:17:21 AM by JonnasN

FireShadow (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
FOFD Since: Apr, 2013
#10736: Feb 11th 2015 at 7:42:59 PM

Flat "What".

"Cat loves food, ya yeah yeah yah!"

Wow.

"Makasaka-oppolis!"

edited 11th Feb '15 7:45:00 PM by FOFD

SonOfSharknado Love is Love is Love Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Love is Love is Love
#10737: Feb 11th 2015 at 8:07:18 PM

.....OH MY GOOOOOD!'

My various fanfics.
IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#10738: Feb 11th 2015 at 8:08:32 PM

This makes me smile in joy, and have hope in my heart that some day, they'll be made into full time voice actors.

Say what you will, they are actually really good at it, particularly in punchline delivery.

Plus, I think only Lani might be able to give Vegeta's delivery of his attacks justice. I guess I'll have to wait for when TFS gets there (shouldn't be too long now) to hear Lani shout the most over the top attack in DBZ history.

edited 11th Feb '15 8:13:13 PM by IAmNotCreativeEnough

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
LOLypop1224 ...what am I even DOING here? Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
...what am I even DOING here?
#10739: Feb 11th 2015 at 8:15:07 PM

Oh my god that is AMAZING!!! We're legitimately crossing the line, people. The line where TFS and DBZ will unite.

The *Legendary* Super Saiyan is motivated by a crying infant! He is a literal giant f***ing baby!
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#10740: Feb 11th 2015 at 8:56:14 PM

This isn't the first time something like this happened.

There was Chris Niosi who did a little voice acting back in the Diamond and Pearl season of the Pokemon anime.

Sometimes, these guys cross over.

edited 11th Feb '15 8:57:21 PM by HandsomeRob

One Strip! One Strip!
Rinsankajugin Since: Feb, 2012
#10741: Feb 11th 2015 at 9:04:09 PM

[up] True, but this is as blatant as you can get with a VA. [lol]

Also, did I just hear TFS Nappa say "Bon Para-Para?" I wonder how that's gonna work...

LOLypop1224 ...what am I even DOING here? Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
...what am I even DOING here?
#10742: Feb 11th 2015 at 9:08:54 PM

I love the fact that not ONLY is it TFS Nappa, it's practically in character. They included a joke character. I can just imagine the people who are getting Xenoverse hearing that as an option for the first time...it would make the story mode hilarious!

The *Legendary* Super Saiyan is motivated by a crying infant! He is a literal giant f***ing baby!
IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#10743: Feb 11th 2015 at 9:26:07 PM

I wonder how many won't get it and cry foul...

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#10744: Feb 11th 2015 at 10:37:32 PM

"Space Australia!"

"Masankopopolopolis!"

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
BaconManiac5000 Since: Nov, 2013 Relationship Status: Baby don't hurt me!
#10745: Feb 11th 2015 at 10:54:48 PM

I really want this game now.

what do you mean I didn't win, I ate more wet t-shirts than anyone else
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#10746: Feb 11th 2015 at 11:37:37 PM

Well. I was already planning to see if I could make a TFS mod happen, but this is amazing!

edited 11th Feb '15 11:37:57 PM by Saiga

IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#10747: Feb 12th 2015 at 12:29:03 AM

It shouldn't take very long for modders to replace Nappa's voice with Takahata's.

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#10748: Feb 12th 2015 at 3:48:38 AM

I mean a serious fandub project, though. Story mode would probably be too much work but just redubbing the characters could be really cool and I think TFS might be interested in doing it if I can find a way to actually replace the sound files.

So I've been revisiting my ideal game idea, and one thing that now has me stumped is in-battle cutscenes and in-battle transformations.

As most of you are aware, Xenoverse lacks in-battle cutscenes of any kind, which is very rare in Dragon Ball games. Dimps have always used them less than Spike, but they still had them for Ultimates in some games and transformations like Boo's absorptions and fusions.

The reason they've moved away from in-game cutscenes is so that everything can be rendered in real time, and doesn't slow down the fight. I think this is partly responsible for some of the decisions regarding transformations, like being unable to fuse or transform through Cell's forms in-battle. Dimps have had both Freeza and Cell simply transform without a cutscene in previous games, but they've never allowed it for Boo's absorptions, fusions, or more Super 17's transformation (which has never been able to be done in-battle).

Obviously the easiest way to make such forms available in battle would be using Spike styled cutscenes, showing the absorptions and fusions and whatnot without needing to land an Ultimate or something, but for a game that used no in-game transformations, what would you like to see done about the following characters/forms?

  • Freeza's transformations, and Mecha Freeza
  • Cell's absorptions, and "Super Perfect"
  • Boo's absorptions
  • Super Saiyan God Goku
  • Vegetto, Gotenks, Gogeta, Yamhan, Kibitoshin
  • Baby's possession of Vegeta
  • Android 17 and Hell Fighter 17 merging into Super 17

Which of those do you think would work with a simple power up and then change, like Freeza and Cell in Dimps' previous games? Freeza and Cell seem fine that way, Super Saiyan God also seems like it would be fine, and I think I could accept Android 17 just transforming into Super 17 as well.

Are there any you feel need to be separate characters? I don't like rosters having forms split up, but some I don't know how else to handle. Mecha Freeza isn't really a form, and the Freeza's Spaceship item was the only one that made an in-battle transformation possible... it was also super broken. When Freeza doesn't have his other forms available as in-battle transformations, it works fine as a costume, but that's not ideal.

I have a hard time seeing Boo just power up into his absorbed forms, but on the other hand it wouldn't be all that different from Cell or 17 doing the same. Would this be fine?

Fusions are hard for me to say. That's one where I really don't think just powering up works, and I don't mind when these are completely separated because it really is a different character. The only problem I have with this is if Yamhan is included, because I feel like he in particular would obsolete his components if compared next to them as separate characters. Do you think a small, non-cutscene animation of fusion could be a workable solution?

Also, Gogeta's forms. He's never been able to transform from Super Saiyan 1 to Super Saiyan 4, which does make sense as those two forms portray Gogeta being formed from two completely different versions of Goku and Vegeta, but on the other hand Dimps have allowed Z Goku and Vegeta to go Super Saiyan 4 in the past anyway. If a game allowed Z Goku / Vegeta to go Super Saiyan 4, do you think Super Gogeta should also be able to transform into his Super Saiyan 4 state assuming both would be included anyway?

Finally, Baby's possession of Vegeta. My original idea was that Vegeta would be able to transform into his Baby possessed forms, however several things might make that wonky. For starters it'd mean either going Spike-style with separate movesets per form which I'd rather avoid, or sharing moves between Vegeta and Baby-Vegeta that really don't make sense to be shared. Baby's also the one in control, so maybe for that he should be a separate character. But then you've got the case of Baby Vegeta being very similar to regular Vegeta in terms of forms, appearance and moves.

Honestly not sure what to do about Baby.

So thoughts on each kind of potentially tricky transformation?

edited 12th Feb '15 5:46:36 AM by Saiga

Rinsankajugin Since: Feb, 2012
#10749: Feb 12th 2015 at 8:26:08 AM

Heh, someone made a Z in Xenoverse!

Karnality Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
#10750: Feb 12th 2015 at 10:22:27 PM

Not a hero, since he has the cells of Frieza, King Cold, King Piccolo and Saiyan Saga!Vegeta, but a regular presence, nonetheless.

Nature vs. Nurture my friend.

Nothing suggests Frieza's race has genocidal genes, the only negative would be the Saiyan genes. It would be dumb as hell for them to reject him for his Saiyan genes since half the Z Fighters have them.

edited 12th Feb '15 10:34:10 PM by Karnality


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