Manga/Dragon Ball

He also has the advantage of being of the same species as the main character, so he can catch up by virtue of exploiting the same racial bonuses.

That's a pretty big difference though

The same applies to Gohan, Goten, and Trunks and all of them are wholly irrelevant nowadays.

That Vegeta matters and Gohan doesn't? Well yea, but its like... even though Vegeta is more prominent, he's still kind of portrayed as a second stringer to Goku.

Edited by BlackYakuzu94 on Sep 19th 2019 at 6:52:19 AM

Yeah but second stringer is better than just... Not mattering

Like I'm not asking for Gohan to be the main character anymore - I think that would have been for the best if that plan had been stuck to, but at this point it's too late for that.

But that's no reason to completely push him out of the story.

Edited by Saiga on Sep 19th 2019 at 9:01:32 PM

It's not, but Toriyama is as Toriyama does; if he doesn't have a purpose for you, then you're probably just gonna be a waste of space.

Vegeta was extremely fortunate that his niche basically means he can be used as much as Goku because as said, he has access to every potential power up Goku has and the same is true for Broly now too now that I think about it.

I mean, that's true of every Saiyan. I don't think that's why Vegeta is being used, I think it's more because the series ended with them leading and that's just stuck as being the status quo.

Wait I found this.

The final Ultra Instinct battle but with Ed, Edd, n Eddy sound effects.

Edited by slimcoder on Sep 19th 2019 at 4:17:32 AM

Why would it matter if the side characters were written out?

Not why he's being used, but rather why he's endured so long in the fanbase.

And I don't think it's just because of the last arc because Vegeta was already pretty popular before it.

They can retire gracefully rather than staying around and not accomplishing anything, and allow for a tigher focus and potential to introduce new characters.

The Broly movie was able to be much more focused by just keeping things contained between the three main characters and the handful of supporting characters.

Well not so gracefully.

Launch simply disappeared into the ether if you recall.

Still, being retired is better than being kept around as space filler.

Oh, I was agreeing with you Black. I thought something was off about my question, but you responded before I could edit it.

@Melon

Nothing wrong with writing out side characters, but I'm critical of the way it's done and the choices of characters to write out.

Even Gohan being written out would work if they could have a decent reason for it, not constantly go back and forth and act like he couldn't be a main fighter when that's clearly not true.

And the issue is that having these characters around and excluding them for flimsy reasons is just super obvious and distracts from whatever plot that they've got going on. It's fine if they want to make the plots that's aren't about saving the world or beating some super strong antagonist, but when it IS it's kind of weird to have the rest of the cast not even try to help.

Like, the big problem with Gohan is that multiple times they expressed his desire to help out in these situations and showed that he was aware that he'd need to train and do so, but then they just ignore him when they don't want to use him despite that not making any sense for his character.

@Black I'm not saying the Boo arc is why he's popular, but I do think it's a big reason why people see Goku and Vegeta as the main pair as that isn't really reflected in the rest of the series. I don't think it's a coincidence that the series ended with the two of them alone being active and that's pretty much the status quo we have now.

DB used to change up the cast makeup very often, but that doesn't really happen now.

Edited by Saiga on Sep 19th 2019 at 9:41:23 PM

All Dragonball Super proves is that the gods, not mortals, are the problem

Well GT didn't have that, Vegeta only pairs up with Goku in, coincidentally, also the last arc of that series.

And sure enough, one of the biggest complaints I heard about GT at the time is how Vegeta was treated until near the end.

But, I do agree that might've influenced people's perceptions a bit.

And I do think it is possible to have characters that have a role that doesn't default to them getting beaten up by the bad guy until the main character shows up. The series has a real problem with that near the end.

Edited by BlackYakuzu94 on Sep 19th 2019 at 8:26:46 AM

Or having to survive while completely outmatched until said main character shows up.

It might help if there were guys to fight that, while more powerful, weren't so out of their league that just barely surviving is all they can even do.

I guess the question is, can Toriyama do something like that? I suppose nothing is totally set in stone. He was constantly flipping the script until he found a formula he liked. Maybe he'll try it agains at some point.

This is why earlier arcs were so much better; the cast actually got to DO something. It wasn't anything major or big, but simply having other roles to play besides job so Goku can save the day made things far less monotonous.

Like...they cut out the extra characters to keep the focus on Goku and Vegeta, which is fine if you have something to replace it like in the movie, since Broly is kind of the central character there and thus, has the lion share of of development.

But then you get things like the TOP and the current Moro arc where things are just...happening, but it doesn't feel like there's any real significance to it.

Well the next manga chapter should be out in a couple days, and Earth is about to be attacked, so we'll see if Gohan gets involved then.

Nah. I figure Goku will get there and beat them up before Gohan can even blink.

But hey, I'm not exactly a seer here, so I could be wrong.

I mean, did anyone expect the Daikaioushin / Dai Kaio (or whatever he's called in the dub) to come back? Or for Buu to suddenly be important (even if he seems to be back to sleeping his way through things again)?

Nothing is totally set in stone.

Well Goku seems to be busy with Ultra Instinct training, and I assume the reason they introduced so many mini-bosses under Moro's command is so the other characters have something to do. Plus it would be a big missed opportunity for Piccolo to not get involved after finding out what Moro did to New Namek.

Edited by Moth13 on Sep 19th 2019 at 9:27:13 AM

....we'll see. It's always hard to tell with him.

Latest chapter of the manga is coming out soon, so leaks are happening...

Yardrats finally explain the difference between Ki, Genki and Magic. Ki hardens your body, strengthens your punches, and lets you fly and shoot beams. Genki is reality manipulation, like growing bigger, multiplying, teleporting, timeskip, fusion, etc. Magic is magic, stuff like the clothes beam, life absorption, possession, etc. Also, Yardrats have their DBO and Anime designs. Piccolo and Dende try calling New Namek with no response. Bulma is going to the lookout to talk to them about the Galactic Patrol. The Macareni Siblings get to Earth, but are defeated by Piccolo, but then send a distress signal to Moro. Merus and Goku are still training. Turns out Merus knows about UI, and how it's the polar opposite to Super Saiyan (SS = Anger, UI = Calm), so they start to train in the Galactic Patrol's Hyperbolic Time Chamber.

Edited by Rinsankajugin on Sep 20th 2019 at 9:30:28 AM

Huh. Some of that sounds interesting, but some of that sounds completely nonsensical and some of that outright contradicts what's been previously established.

Eh, it does sound weird, but at least it somewhat explains how everything works. I always had a feeling Ki, Genki and Magic were all different powersets.

Edited by Rinsankajugin on Sep 20th 2019 at 9:49:49 AM

Wait then what the hell is the Genki Dama?

Also, Genki was originally explained as being part of Ki. Like, Genki made up like a third of Ki, or something like that, and that tracks with how chi works in mythology. Genki was originally explained to be the most basic form of energy present in all matter, like straight-up atomic vibration energy.