But mass has never been a problem before. There is not one example in the series about mass slowing them down.
Vegeta didn't saying anything either way. Goku was still easily outsped by Oozaru Vegeta though, which he didn't expect.
The argument is rather pointless since we can tell from the Baby/Goku fight that Goku didn't have any noticeable advantage in speed.
That depends on whether we're talking about Popularity Power or hard facts.
In terms of popularity, Broly would be the stronger of the two because that's just what fandom has Broly do no matter how much or little sense it makes. If we're talking about actual strength, by the time Gogeta even comes into existence - even acknowledging him as a movie-exclusive character - Broly is So Last Season that Goku should be able to demolish him without breaking a sweat. Hell, even the movies understand this, with Broly's second film having to pit him against pre-Ultimate Gohan, non-Fusion Goten and Trunks, and Videl because having Goku or Vegeta fight him would be a thoroughly anticlimactic Curb-Stomp Battle.
By his third appearance, he's having to threaten Krillin for lack of characters weak enough to throw down with him.
edited 19th Dec '14 7:43:41 AM by TobiasDrake
My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.And now Wiz and Boomstick will receive a million hate mails from the misguided, dumbass fanbois. Again. Prompting them to declare that there'll never again be a DB character in Death Battle.
(Incidentally, I too disagree with how the fight went, simply because Kirby has no real way to kill Buu, and they really can only prolong the fight long enough for that to become a factor at all by forgetting that if there's not a legitimately interesting opponent around, Majin Buu will simply obliterate the planet along with everything in it and move on.)
edited 19th Dec '14 8:31:10 AM by IAmNotCreativeEnough
himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimariNot Fat Buu. He's perfectly content to eat food, make a house out of people, ect.
But I haven't watched the death battle and don't know if he becomes Super Buu or something.
Anyway, regarding Gold Oozaru vs. Super Saiyan 4, I kinda assume they're the same multiplier, it's just that Baby's transformation "does less" for him since he's not a real Saiyan, just hijacking one.
You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!There IS a precedent for that, sort of.
When Captain Ginyu hijacked Goku's body, rather than getting the 180,000 he was expecting or even the 90,000 that would be reasonable due to his ignorance of the Kaioken, Ginyu-as-Goku wound up with a power level of a whopping 23,000 - weaker than Vegeta when he arrived on Namek. His complete inexperience at using Goku's body properly not only prohibited him from getting the best results out of it, but actively nerfed him by a rather substantial margin.
If Baby had consistently performed inferior to Vegeta, this would be an acceptable fanwank explanation. This would not, however, affect the multipliers from using the transformations; those are static. Whether you're Goten or Vegetto, you get x50 from being a Super Saiyan.
edited 19th Dec '14 3:01:00 PM by TobiasDrake
My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.Yes. The Doom Guy, who in game is jumping around, dodging attacks and moving at just flat out insane speeds, was reduced to walking very, very slowly and tanking attacks instead of fighting intelligently in any way, shape or form, so that Master Chief could win their fight.
himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimariThe strange thing about MC vs Doomguy is that the post-match data stated that Doomguy was actually like 25% faster than MC. But the actual video he never went faster than a leisurely stroll. I mean like, okay, the actual fight doesn't accurately reflect how the supposed matchup would go down, but still at least have what everybody will be watching reflect your own analysis.
For that matter their "No outside help" rule seems subject to whim rather than consistency. Like Batman can get bats to help him or Buu/Kirby can absorb random bystanders, but Cloud doesn't get his summons.
edited 19th Dec '14 4:26:52 PM by Spirit
#IceBearForPresidentTo be fair, in the Kirby fight, it was pretty clear that they were pretty much completely useless anyway.
Heroes who depend on powerups would logically be thoroughly screwed, because the powerups are an outside help, if it's something they don't always carry around. For instance, in the Shadow VS Vegeta fight, they gave Shadow the seven Chaos Emeralds, even though it's illogical for him to have them.
Also they were, for some insane reason, running under the assumption that Vegeta's SSJ form gave him 10x power instead of 50x power...
himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimariPlus, Kirby has dealt with worse then Buu anyway. Like reality warpers can make black wholes, invert reality to make it upside down, and other things.
Plus, he killed the entire dark matter force and Zero. Twice.
Even when his power Is divided into little lemming like creatures ( Kirby Mass attack) he can still defeat planet destroying horrors like Necrosis.
Watch Symphogear@Mage It just shows that they don't even stick to their own rules. It's a damn good thing that didn't alter the result, but it's still kind of lame.
Cloud's one is weird. Of those examples, his one should count the least as outside help. If any exception was going to be made, I would have thought it'd be him.
edited 19th Dec '14 4:55:54 PM by Saiga
Particularly because the summons basically amount to spells. If they worked like the Espers from FFXII or the Aeons from FFX, then I could buy them being outlawed, but in FFVII's case, the summons are basically just a more elaborate form of using magic.
himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimariOnes he other hand, Supernova is a summon apparently, and not an illusion like some assume, due to constantly destroying the solar system over and over according to the ultimania.
Watch Symphogear@Tobias Drake: What I mean is that while his potential power is still being multiplied by x500, or whatever Super Saiyan 4's multiplier is, he's not able to access all of that.
But that's just my input. I kinda like the idea of the gold Oozaru and Super Saiyan 4 being the same thing powerwise, just different sizes and controllability.
You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!

Again, the mass of that thing alone is a problem.
Also, didn't Vegeta say in regards to the form that he only didn't lose any speed? I don't think he said anything about actually increasing in speed.
Let's see if you can get past my Beelzemon. Mephiles, WARP SHINKA!