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Spirit Pretty flower from America Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: Hooked on a feeling
Pretty flower
#8676: Oct 29th 2014 at 10:25:01 PM

Which still means the 3rd form gets buffed by extension and still ends up vastly more powerful than the buffed up 1st.

edited 29th Oct '14 10:26:55 PM by Spirit

#IceBearForPresident
BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#8677: Oct 29th 2014 at 10:51:43 PM

Super Saiyan 1 has the most benefits despite being weaker than 2 or 3; it's the easiest form to maintain and it's the only that's generally used more than any other one.

Super Saiyan 3 is Awesome, but Impractical, yes it grants you massive power, but if you can't beat your opponent soon enough, you just end up burning yourself out.

Super Saiyan 2...yea I got nothing, I wouldn't think the power drain is anywhere near the levels of Super Saiyan 3. I guess Goku just simply isn't used to the form considering he's only really used it twice effectively, against Vegeta and Super Buu. Any other time he either defaults to Super Saiyan 1 or tries to go all out with 3.

So I guess Super Saiyan 2 is simply a Master of None. So if I had to divide the three forms.

Super Saiyan 1 = Simple, yet Awesome

Super Saiyan 2 = Master of None/Jack of All Trades

Super Saiyan 3 = Awesome, but Impractical

edited 29th Oct '14 10:52:20 PM by BlackYakuzu94

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#8678: Oct 30th 2014 at 1:07:01 AM

If you can't beat your opponent fast enough as a Super Saiyan 3, you die. That's it. They'd just kill you if your 8x stronger form couldn't beat them.

It made more sense with the Graded forms that either weren't as strong or actually reduced your fighting ability. Super Saiyan 2 has no observed stamina drain and Super Saiyan 3 is just too strong.

The change to Super Saiyan was likely done just for marketability and brand recognition. Super Saiyan 2 and 3 just ultimately didn't have the legacy as Goku's first transformation.

BaffleBlend Hey there! Having fun? from Somewhere Since: Dec, 2012 Relationship Status: LET'S HAVE A ZILLION BABIES
Hey there! Having fun?
#8679: Oct 30th 2014 at 2:56:17 AM

Imagine if Goku trained himself to maintain 3 (or 4 or G) as well as he did 1.

"It's liberating, realizing you never need to be competent." — Ultimatepheer
BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#8680: Oct 30th 2014 at 5:04:09 AM

He'd probably die before he'd get that far.

But yea, Saiga nailed. Super Saiyan 1 is just simply the most iconic version of the transformation, so I can see why they'd want to focus on that one alone.

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
Nikkolas from Texas Since: Dec, 2009 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#8681: Oct 30th 2014 at 6:20:22 AM

Maybe it's just the fact me and many others here in America were kids when we watched DBZ religiously but I think Gohan going SSJ 2 is at least just as iconic, and I personally think it's far more awesome.

edited 30th Oct '14 6:20:33 AM by Nikkolas

Blackyakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#8682: Oct 30th 2014 at 6:32:55 AM

I'm pretty sure this is primarily in Japan, and SS 2 isn't the one on most of the products.

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#8683: Oct 30th 2014 at 7:40:40 AM

[up][up] I've noticed a trend where when people think Dragon Ball, they think the Android Saga specifically. When they think transformations, they think Gohan's SSJ 2. When they think villains, they think Cell. When they think awesome attacks, it's Final Flash or Big Bang Attack. Everyone's favorite fight is Piccolo vs Android 17, and everyone's favorite character is Future Trunks. On the negative side, the show gets a bad rap for being solely about transforming into more powerful forms of Super Saiyan to combat enemies who, themselves, transform into more powerful forms to combat those Super Saiyan forms - something that was only a trend in the Android Saga.

The Android Saga seems to have overshadowed the entire rest of the DBZ canon in Western perception. Was it rerun more frequently than the rest of the series?

edited 30th Oct '14 7:42:03 AM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#8684: Oct 30th 2014 at 8:06:53 AM

Most of today's generation were old enough to start watching television by themselves, and it was around 2000 when the Android Saga started to air. Secondly, the Android Saga was when the dub started to Grow the Beard as far as scripting goes.

I really wasn't that hooked until Freeza showed up and started wreckin everyone.

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
Nikkolas from Texas Since: Dec, 2009 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#8685: Oct 30th 2014 at 8:17:16 AM

Well, in addition to its inherent greatness, Funi got a lot better at their job in the Android/Cell Saga.

Even if we were all too young and stupid to realize just how bad the voices were at the time (and they were pretty bad], I think everyone appreciated the new cast we got in the Android/Cell Saga. Eric Vale as Future Trunks, Chuck Huber as Android 17, Meredith Mc Coy as Android 18 and last but certainly not least, Dameon Clarke as Cell. I will defend Funi's Z dub for the most part but I cannot deny that Linda Young did not help Freeza at all. Freeza looks girly, he acts girly and he has a rather bad female voice on top of all that holding him back.

By comparison....This is how our new main villain sounded.

Furthermore, there is a reason JRP Gs and most anime focus on teenagers and young adults. People always complain about it on forums and stuff because they're tired of ordinary high school students accomplishing everything ever but the reasoning is very simple and it's one that is just as true for Western media - shows and books intended for younger audiences have younger protagonists. It goes over well with these audiences. We were all about Gohan's age (well, in the Funi dub, in reality he was like 9 in the Cell Games I think but Funi had him about 11) so naturally he was a hero we could get behind. None of us had the vaguest clue Goku had once been a child hero himself.

On a similar note, I was a HUGE Vegeta fanboy at the time. I was always rooting for him in the Namek Saga over those toody-two shoes heroes. That same sort of "edgier" attitude was seen in SSJ 2 Gohan and the way he just insisted on torturing Cell. That could very well have been a factor for why I prefrred his transformation as well.

Finally, dat music. The Android and Cell Saga are probably when Faulconer truly made his mark as a legend.

This was played during an epic commercial for DBZ on Toonami. Is it any surprise people gravitated towards Future Trunks? Then you throw in Cell's Theme, Gohan Angers, SSJ Vegeta's Theme, all of which play at extremely iconic moments like Gohan becoming SSJ 2, Vegeta usign Final Flash, etc., and you have an added ingredient for success.

Sub fans, manga fans, the usual Kanzenshuu crowd, they can make as much of a stink as they want about Funi "tainting" or "ruining" the spirit of DBZ but Funimation is as much responsible for DBZ becoming the second biggest anime ever as anyone else.

edited 30th Oct '14 8:25:37 AM by Nikkolas

qtjinla15 Since: Dec, 2010
#8687: Oct 30th 2014 at 7:05:18 PM

I understand dropping three, but one being iconic or not there isn't really a good enough justification for dropping two since there was never any major noted flaws with SS 2.

LordofLore Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Consider his love an honor
#8688: Oct 31st 2014 at 5:50:13 AM

Played the Xenoverse demo as Raditz vs Goku at Sweden!Comic Con/Gamex. The game is fast. My opponent beam spammed the entire game but I won since he didn't know how to block. The K.O zoom ins are really funny. The game is really nice looking.

The demo roster was Goku, Gohan(kid), Krillin, Yamcha, Tien, Piccolo, Vegeta, Raditz and Nappa. Also 5 custom characters: 2 human, 2 buu's(? None of us even checked if they were buu's but their outline on the select screen was pink) and 1 namekian.

edited 31st Oct '14 6:10:27 AM by LordofLore

Raven666 I'd totally hug you if that was something I did from Everywhere and Nowhere. I'm watching you. Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
I'd totally hug you if that was something I did
#8689: Oct 31st 2014 at 11:14:22 AM

Don't know if this is the right place to ask, but does anyone know if i'll still get all the pre-order stuff if I pre-order Xenoverse through Amazon? Gamestop has a history of running out of things when you pre-order games through them. At least, they have every time i've pre-ordered a game through them.

What started out as a pleasant afternoon of drugs and surgery has not gone as planned.
Rinsankajugin Since: Feb, 2012
#8690: Oct 31st 2014 at 11:45:22 AM

I think it was confirmed Amazon was one of the participating retailers supporting the bonuses. So that should be good for you if ya don't wanna deal with Gamestop's hobknockery.

Just look around for some more info before buying though, in case I'm wrong.

edited 31st Oct '14 11:46:27 AM by Rinsankajugin

Nikkolas from Texas Since: Dec, 2009 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#8691: Nov 1st 2014 at 5:04:12 PM

So anybody checked out this guy's remastered DBZ tracks?

He did an amazing job with all the songs but a personal favorite is:

Nikkolas from Texas Since: Dec, 2009 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#8692: Nov 2nd 2014 at 3:58:42 PM

Thoughts on this?

I think he goes off the rails when it comes to the Androids but the initial points sound right to me...

edited 2nd Nov '14 4:00:49 PM by Nikkolas

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#8693: Nov 2nd 2014 at 11:39:52 PM

His argument is founded entirely on dub only lines.

Rinsankajugin Since: Feb, 2012
#8694: Nov 3rd 2014 at 2:24:49 AM

Giant Bio-Broly and Full-Powered Rage Shenron confirmed, along with 2 secret cards yet to be revealed:

Nikkolas from Texas Since: Dec, 2009 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#8695: Nov 3rd 2014 at 7:33:38 AM

[up][up] What? He shows scans from the manga and says Goku was at 8000 upon his return to Earth (as opposed to the infamous "over 9000") and he even calls the dub wrong when talking about what percentage of power Freeza was at prior to 50%, saying it certainly wasn't 1%.

I don't see him using dub lines at all.

edited 3rd Nov '14 7:34:32 AM by Nikkolas

FireShadow (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#8696: Nov 3rd 2014 at 11:42:50 AM

[up][up][up] All I got from that video is that, power levels are bullshit. But honestly he lost when he stated that Raditz has not right to be scare of Piccolo's power level being 90-95% of his. It wasn't the power level it self he was afraid of, it was the fact of how much energy Piccolo was concentrating it into a single point. Because, as previously stated in the series and something he didn't bring up in the video, when you concentrate and focus your energy to a single output or point it can be deadly.

He also fucks up a lot of things after that.:

  • Nappa's power level is stated to be 4000 in Daizenshuu 7. Its the Saibamen who have a power similar to that of Raditz of 1200.
  • When Nappa started powering up his power level was around 7000, hence why he was so shocked and was in disbelief when Vegeta told him Goku's power level was over 8000
  • When Piccolo shot Nappa in the back, Piccolo was very fatigued, while Nappa wasn't breaking a sweat
  • Battle in anime =/= Battle in manga. Goku was having his ass handed to him in the manga version of the fight between him and Freeza as soon as Freeza powered up to 50%. And when Vegeta took on Zarbon, Vegeta was fighting very dirty. He threw sand in Zarbon's eyes and punched him so hard in the back Zarbon's level power dipped
  • He also never mention Zenkai's. They were pretty huge plot point in the Namek and Freeza arc. When Zarbon beats Vegeta's senseless, Vegeta's power level rises dramatically.
  • It is never hinted that Dr Gero's power level is anywhere near that of a Super Saiyan or Freeza. And there was no way the Z-Fighters could have predicted or estimated how strong Dr Gero was as androids power levels can't be sensed. Hell, the only reason Vegeta didn't absolutely own Gero himself was because he couldn't bothered.
  • Goku was practically dying when he fighting Android 19. Naturally someone's power level would decrease when, you know, they're dying
  • The guy in the video also fails at math really hard. If Freeza has power level of 60,000,000 at 50%, to find out what his power level would be at 10%, 1/10 is what the guy in the video estimates, you divide 60,000,000 by 5, which is 12,000,000. And considering Goku's power level for practically all of the battle before he transformed into a Super Saiyan was 30,000,000, it would explain why Goku was more than holding his own against Freeza for the majority of the battle before Freeza cranked up his power to 50% of its full potential.

In short, he's pretty much inaccurate about everything in regards to actual power levels.

In other news: Dragon Ball Xenoverse Tenkaichi Budokai will have preliminary stages and and main event

edited 3rd Nov '14 1:02:44 PM by FireShadow

Nikkolas from Texas Since: Dec, 2009 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#8697: Nov 3rd 2014 at 12:46:44 PM

Your first point isn't a point at all because he specificlaly refrences the Daizenshuu 4000 PL for Nappa.

Also where are you getting Nappa at 7000?

edited 3rd Nov '14 12:47:37 PM by Nikkolas

FireShadow (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#8698: Nov 3rd 2014 at 12:54:48 PM

[up] No, he doesn't. He never states Nappa's power level

Also, did you not read my second point? I said Nappa's power level when he powered up to his max is around 7000 because of how shocked he was when Vegeta states that Goku's power was over 8000 and how he stated he couldn't believe Goku was stronger than him.

edited 3rd Nov '14 12:58:24 PM by FireShadow

Nikkolas from Texas Since: Dec, 2009 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#8699: Nov 3rd 2014 at 1:02:04 PM

Huh, you're right. How did I miss that. I guess I kinda just figured he had said that because he was downplaying Piccolo's PL in comparison to 4000. His point was that a 3500 attack to the back would have done more damage to a guy only 500 points stronger so he put Piccolo down to 2500 instead. But if Nappa was only 1200 it would have obliterated him.

I think the guy got confused. I'm confused too apparently.

Sorry about that.

My overall point though is just that I've heard people claim the Daizenshuu is full of inconsistencies. For inestance, you believe Nappa was 7000. A lot of people seem to believe that after i did a Google search. At the very least a lot of people don't buy that hw as only 4000 and prefer to put him at a minum of 5000.

edited 3rd Nov '14 1:03:28 PM by Nikkolas

FireShadow (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#8700: Nov 3rd 2014 at 1:29:12 PM

The Daizenshuu's for the majority are pretty accurate. The inconsistency of Krillin's being 1,770 during the battle against Nappa then decreasing to 1,500 when he and Gohan arrived on Namek can be explained simply as Krillin and Gohan were just powering up and obviously were holding back.

The only inconsistency the Daizenshuu's provide are in regard to Bulla's age. One section of Daizenshuu 7 lists her as born in Age 778, meaning she is 12 at the end of Dragon Ball GT, while another section of the Daizenshuu and the Dragon Ball GT Perfect Files list her as born in Age 780, meaning she is 10 at the end of GT. Her absence in the film Dragon Ball Z: Battle of Gods and her mother being not pregnant in the film imply that she was not born in Age 778.


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