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BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#8651: Oct 29th 2014 at 8:11:46 AM

Battle of Gods at least had a purpose for doing it, GT literally offers none.

So since we're on the subject of Power Levels, how much of a multiplier do you think Mystic was? Comparable to Super Saiyan?

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
alekos23 Since: Mar, 2013
#8652: Oct 29th 2014 at 8:27:05 AM

a x1 multiplier?it's basically base Gohan.

Shlugo_the_great King of Burgers from Far Far Away (On A Trope Odyssey) Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
King of Burgers
#8653: Oct 29th 2014 at 8:28:49 AM

I don't think i has a set multiplier, as it depends on how much of your full power you were using before you got it. That'd said it should be way above Super Sayian or there would be no point. I have Mystic Gohan at something around 1000X his base power give or take.

BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#8654: Oct 29th 2014 at 8:43:53 AM

Well, the multiplier is definitely higher than Super Saiyan 3 considering Gohan puts up a much better fight against Buu than either Goku or Gotenks. But not as strong as Buu after absorbing Gotenks and Piccolo, and certainly not above Vegetto.

So does 200% seem like a decent estimation?

Like Goku's Buu Arc power level was 80,000,000 Super Saiyan 3 would put him at 12,000,000,000,000.

If Gohan's Buu Arc power level was say, 30,000,000(It's off the top of my head and it's relative to what was said in this arc about him being weaker) then Mystic would him at 60,000,000,000,000.

Does that seem right?

edited 29th Oct '14 8:47:50 AM by BlackYakuzu94

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#8655: Oct 29th 2014 at 8:46:58 AM

Super Saiyan 3 Goku never fights Super Buu at base, and Gotenks's power level is completely ambiguous. It's hard to say how Ultimate Gohan compares to Super Saiyan 3, because the latter is a multiplier, and the former is a static power-up.

Although regardless of how he compares, power-wise, Ultimate Gohan doesn't have to deal with the power leakage that makes Super Saiyan 3 such a goddamn awful form. So there's that.

edited 29th Oct '14 8:48:10 AM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Shlugo_the_great King of Burgers from Far Far Away (On A Trope Odyssey) Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
King of Burgers
#8656: Oct 29th 2014 at 8:51:17 AM

Goku seems to think himself superior to Super Buu with Piccolo and boys absorbed at least:

BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#8657: Oct 29th 2014 at 8:56:27 AM

Well in the Manga he did say Gohan would be able to handle him, don't know about goku himself though.

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#8658: Oct 29th 2014 at 10:57:37 AM

[up][up] That's fair. I didn't think about the Hope Spot against Buu+Piccolo.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Nikkolas from Texas Since: Dec, 2009 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#8659: Oct 29th 2014 at 11:42:25 AM

So wait, for anyone who has seen the BOG movie, does the entire idea of god ki even work?

Are the Kais supposed to have it?

Because, Supreme Kai is...what, Cell-level? If that? And he was the strongest one still around, the others are WAYYYYY weaker.

So them possessing their own "special energy" that is, from what I can gather, inherently superior to the energy someone like Goku or the others can gather, makes no sense.

FireShadow (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#8660: Oct 29th 2014 at 12:54:47 PM

[up] How so? The Kais and the Gods of Destruction are literally born as Gods. That would automatically place there ki would on a whole different plane that than of anyone else in the Universe. And that's not even taking into consideration that the Kais essentially create the planets of the universe, which I doubt could be done with "regular" ki. And the Kai's also had to deal with Majin Buu, where as Beerus was most like not giving a fuck about that situation and spent most of his time getting stronger through Whis's training while the Kais had no time to train to get stronger as Majin Buu was viciously hunting them down and wreaking havoc.

edited 29th Oct '14 12:59:28 PM by FireShadow

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#8661: Oct 29th 2014 at 2:00:37 PM

Goku feeling confident against Buuccilo is nonsense. He later on expresses he stands no chance against base Super Buu, let alone Piccolo-absorbed.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
FireShadow (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#8662: Oct 29th 2014 at 3:32:48 PM

[up] It's a Dub-Induced Plot Hole. In the original Japanese version and the manga Goku states several times that Super Buu, just in a base form, would annihilate him.

Nikkolas from Texas Since: Dec, 2009 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#8663: Oct 29th 2014 at 3:38:25 PM

[up]It's not a dub induced plot hole. I only watch the dub and in the dub, after Goku and Vegeta pull everyone out of Super Buu's head or whatever, Goku says both he and Vegeta together still stood no chance against Super Buu.

[up][up][up] I'm saying it doesn't make sense because didn't Goku need this whole SSJ God thing to fight Beerus? Only "god ki" doesn't matter because all the adult Saiyans wer estronger than any Kai in the Buu Saga. So...it's not a matter of having god or mortal ki, it's a matter of power level.

Also I just found this

Why is this so awesome?

FireShadow (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#8664: Oct 29th 2014 at 3:57:00 PM

[up] Dude, you shouldn't just watch the dubbed version of DBZ. Funimation fucked up a lot of key facts and scenes. The remastered version is no better either.

Having "Godly Ki" does matter. Beerus no sold everything at him with having to use a fraction of his power. Then the Godly Ki that comes with Super Saiyan God and now all of a sudden he can dome real damage against Beerus and it result in Beerus having to use at least 70% of his power to keep up.

While the music may be kinda cool, I don't pay £40-50 on a game just to listen to the music. The game as a whole is total hot garbage. The worst Dragon Ball game ever released. Although Dragon Ball Z: Sagas gives it a damn good run for its money.

edited 29th Oct '14 4:03:53 PM by FireShadow

HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
Ssj3Gojira Arashi Shigehito from The Event Horizon Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Arashi Shigehito
#8666: Oct 29th 2014 at 4:01:50 PM

[up] Hey, I liked that game.

edited 29th Oct '14 4:02:09 PM by Ssj3Gojira

Let's see if you can get past my Beelzemon. Mephiles, WARP SHINKA!
Nikkolas from Texas Since: Dec, 2009 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#8667: Oct 29th 2014 at 4:04:49 PM

[up][up][up] I have been hanging out on forums discussing DBZ for like, seven years. I know all about Funi's alterations. IT is not the speed of light, Kid Buu is not the strongest version of Buu, and there are probably others I'm forgetting.

Believe me, posting on Daizenshuu Ex/Kanzenshuu as only a dub fan, you NEED to know your facts or you won't last very long.

Incidentally though, I'm pretty sure Funi's dub got most things right. As I said, it kept the line about Goku + Vegeta being no match for Super Buu. Besides, the only saga I even care about anymore is Cell Saga and I don't recall any real problems there.

The anime changed a lot from the manga regardless. Like SSJ 3 Gotenks being more or less even with Super Buu while he was apparently clearly kicking Buu's ass in the manga.

edited 29th Oct '14 4:05:11 PM by Nikkolas

FireShadow (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#8668: Oct 29th 2014 at 4:06:17 PM

[up][up][up] Much, much, much worse.

edited 29th Oct '14 4:07:23 PM by FireShadow

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#8669: Oct 29th 2014 at 7:17:46 PM

The line where Goku is confident against Piccolo boo is the plot hole, Funi did indeed get it right inside Boo with Goku announcing his inferiority to Boo.

I don't think Ultimate has its own multiplier, just a potential unlock (which depends on the individual) and access to the Super Saiyan power. So it's an increase in base and then 100x or 400x on top of that (depending on if you think Gohan's drawing on Super Saiyan 2 or if Old Kaioshin was able to make him draw on Super Saiyan 3).

Re: If God ki works - it doesn't. God ki can't be sensed by non-Gods, yet non-Gods can sense God, Dende and Kaio. And it simply goes against the idea in Dragon Ball that gods are not inherently better.

Edit: And the S S3s vs Ultimate aren't ambiguous at all. Ultimate Gohan clearly surpasses Gotenks who clearly surpasses Goku.

edited 29th Oct '14 7:20:28 PM by Saiga

BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#8670: Oct 29th 2014 at 8:03:25 PM

Plus Ultimate doesn't drain you like a bitch, so there's that.

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
Nikkolas from Texas Since: Dec, 2009 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#8671: Oct 29th 2014 at 8:12:10 PM

Did that whole power drain thing even matter after the Cell Saga? Well it mattered for SSJ 3 but SSJ 2 seemed to operate just fine.

If it was really that important Goku should have just stayed SSJ all the time.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#8672: Oct 29th 2014 at 8:17:57 PM

Word of God says he eventually did.

Super Saiyan 2 and 3 are nothing more than powered-up variations of Super Saiyan. After the fight with Beerus, Goku realized that mastering his normal state and Super Saiyan would raise his level more and sap less strength, so I think he probably won’t become Super Saiyan 2 or 3 any more.

edited 29th Oct '14 8:18:10 PM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Ssj3Gojira Arashi Shigehito from The Event Horizon Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Arashi Shigehito
#8673: Oct 29th 2014 at 8:37:02 PM

Which sucks, because Super Saiyan 3 was one of my favorite designs. Plus, it paved the way for the whole mullet of power thing that other shonen heroes would get.

Let's see if you can get past my Beelzemon. Mephiles, WARP SHINKA!
Spirit Pretty flower from America Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: Hooked on a feeling
Pretty flower
#8674: Oct 29th 2014 at 9:39:57 PM

I don't get the point of saying the higher tier SS forms are worse than the lower. I mean like, if you can't beat your opponent in the minutes SS 3 provides then there's no way you are gonna beat him in the hours SS 1 gives.

#IceBearForPresident
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#8675: Oct 29th 2014 at 10:13:20 PM

Yeah, but if you master Super Saiyan 1 to the point that your putting out the same level of power as Super Saiyan 3, then you sure as hell can do it.

Though I'm not sure why he's giving up on Super Saiyan 2. It's a legitimately useful form, with more power and speed than one, and less of a drain on Ki than 3.

Why not work on mastering that instead?

edited 29th Oct '14 10:13:55 PM by HandsomeRob

One Strip! One Strip!

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