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Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#8626: Oct 27th 2014 at 7:29:43 PM

Gohan's pacifism/dislike of fighting run contrary to his character development. He started out that way, but that was only for the Saiyan arc when he was forced into it. Even then, once Piccolo died he manned up, choosing to go back to Goku's aid and holding off Vegeta. Then he chose to go to the Namek arc, never backed down despite constantly being outclassed, and demanded that Goku allow him to participate in the training and battles of the Android arc. He didn't need to be a fight junkie to do any of that, or stand up to Cell. Yet when it comes around to that he reverts to his pre-character development self, even though he should know the last time he tried to avoid fighting he got Piccolo killed.

@HT Whatever you saw sounds either fake or misinterpreted. There have been charts showing the Bad Future timeline splits but nothing like that for GT.

Battle of Gods "12 universes" comment has not yet bern explored, we have no idea what they are or if they're even multiverses.

edited 27th Oct '14 7:34:17 PM by Saiga

Nikkolas from Texas Since: Dec, 2009 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#8627: Oct 28th 2014 at 3:48:00 PM

I think I'm gonna buy the GT DV Ds this November. I want to reacquaint myself with the series and its "Power Levels" and whatnot.

Honestly, I think watching it with the original Japanese music might help. The Faulconer score arguably improved DBZ and it surely didn't detract from it. The GT dub music though....yeah, it didn't help. And GT needs all the help it can get.

FireShadow (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#8628: Oct 28th 2014 at 4:02:26 PM

Good luck trying to help GT. It's like trying to help a one legged man win a butt kicking contest, its a lost cause. Honestly, GT is a classic example of good concepts being ruined by horrible, and I seriously mean horrible, execution. I watch bits of GT every now and again but it's only because its Bile Fascination.

edited 28th Oct '14 7:42:08 PM by FireShadow

Nikkolas from Texas Since: Dec, 2009 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#8629: Oct 28th 2014 at 4:14:42 PM

I recall it having some good moments...vaguely...here and there...

I liked Pan! I have to watch the show again for her more than anything.

BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#8630: Oct 28th 2014 at 5:26:38 PM

I got bored of GT when it became apparent Goku was the only one who was of any importance.

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
Shlugo_the_great King of Burgers from Far Far Away (On A Trope Odyssey) Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
King of Burgers
#8631: Oct 28th 2014 at 6:34:03 PM

"Hey, remember Uub, who got introduced at the end of last series as Goku successor? Well he won't be important here. Instead why don't you watch some Trunks - but not the cool one, no this Trunks is lame and boring."

edited 28th Oct '14 6:34:34 PM by Shlugo_the_great

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#8632: Oct 28th 2014 at 7:04:42 PM

Even fusing with Buu wasn't enough to escape Goku's shadow.

Remember that GT stands for Goku Time.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#8633: Oct 28th 2014 at 7:19:53 PM

Oh yeah, GT killed off Fat Buu. That kinda sucks.

Ssj3Gojira Arashi Shigehito from The Event Horizon Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Arashi Shigehito
#8634: Oct 28th 2014 at 7:48:25 PM

He wasn't killed off though, he fused with Uub and became a second voice inside his head. We hear from him again during the World Tournament before Super 17 happened.

Let's see if you can get past my Beelzemon. Mephiles, WARP SHINKA!
FireShadow (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#8635: Oct 28th 2014 at 7:59:14 PM

The main reason I despise GT, is, as many people often say, how they treated the cast. However, it was the treatment of Uub that left me so disillusion with GT. What they did with that guy was just unforgivable. As far as I'm concerned he should have been the main character. But instead, like everyone who wasn't Goku, he was Demoted to Extra. It still boggles my mind to this day how they fucked over essentially Goku's chosen successor. And it's not like there wasn't any room to develop him as a character. Instead Toei listened to the hardcore Japanese fanbase, which is never a good to do, especially when it comes to anime, and Goku ends up hogging the spotlight.

Then there was Android 17. And that colossal fuck up of an "arc" he got, where several chances to develop his and Android 18's character were spurned at every occasion. Then you the absolute useless and contrived nature of Super Saiyan 4, Gohan forgetting about his powers, Trunks being an idiot, Vegeta looking like that biker guy from the Village People, Pan being the banes of everyone existence, Bulma being an bitch for no damn good reason...

GT could, and should have, been much more than it was. C'est la vie.

edited 28th Oct '14 8:01:17 PM by FireShadow

BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#8636: Oct 28th 2014 at 8:15:30 PM

It did lead to some pretty good moments though

But yea, GT was trash.

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
Nikkolas from Texas Since: Dec, 2009 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#8637: Oct 28th 2014 at 8:16:19 PM

Gohan didn't forget his powers, he's just stronger now.

What is it with people and Mystic Gohan going SSJ? Have you forgotten Gohan already had a "draw out your potential" powerup from Guru? Goku got the same thing with the Ultra Divine Water. Both of them would go on to much, MUCH stronger after this. Same thing should apply to Gohan really. Buu Saga he got a powerup so he didn't need SSJ at the time but GT is way the fuck later so he's gotten stronger.

In related news, the 50 X multiplier is havoc on power level charts. I'm looking at PL charts for GT and holy shit it's amazing. So many 0's. I mean, even if you didn't go with GT, assume we use Base Buu Saga Goku, who should still be > Freeza. So right there Goku is 120,000,000. Now multiply that by 50. Then multiply it again by....2? I forget. And then 3? It's already crazy enough there but by GT Goku should be like, in the billions, at least. AT BASE. So 50x time that then 2x then 3x.

Honestly I'm not even sure anymore. I've never done more than vaguely glance at the fanmade PL charts online but now I am looking more into it, it seems there is a whole shitload of contraidctory information about each SSJ level's multiplier.

edited 28th Oct '14 8:19:22 PM by Nikkolas

BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#8638: Oct 28th 2014 at 8:21:19 PM

Gohan loses literally every fight he gets into in GT, so that stronger bit is bullshit.

And Mystic Gohan is completely unable to go Super Saiyan, period. When Old Kai told him too, Mystic is what happened. All of his Super Saiyan power was channeled into his base form, which is why it's treated as a transformation of it's own afterward.

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
Nikkolas from Texas Since: Dec, 2009 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#8639: Oct 28th 2014 at 8:32:02 PM

Everyone loses their fights in GT except Goku and Vegeta, it doesn't mean they got weaker. It's just that every villain in GT is absurdly powerful. It's like saying Tien didn't get stronger from DB just because he lost every fight in Z.

edited 28th Oct '14 8:32:35 PM by Nikkolas

Ssj3Gojira Arashi Shigehito from The Event Horizon Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Arashi Shigehito
#8640: Oct 28th 2014 at 8:34:30 PM

And yet Gohan goes both Mystic and Super Saiyan in Battle of Gods, so it's entirety possible that Toriyama either forgot about that or the whole "he can't go Super Saiyan" thing was retconned.

Let's see if you can get past my Beelzemon. Mephiles, WARP SHINKA!
HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#8641: Oct 28th 2014 at 8:35:34 PM

Speaking of GT and Battle, Omega Shenron: stronger or weaker than Beerus and Whis?

Ssj3Gojira Arashi Shigehito from The Event Horizon Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Arashi Shigehito
#8642: Oct 28th 2014 at 8:40:42 PM

I say equal to or greater than Whis.

Let's see if you can get past my Beelzemon. Mephiles, WARP SHINKA!
Nikkolas from Texas Since: Dec, 2009 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#8643: Oct 28th 2014 at 8:51:52 PM

Heh, I was inquiring about that exact same thing on another board. (Been so obsessed with P Ls lately...) I was only going with Beerus though, I wasn't even touching Whis. A lot of people are divided on whether or not he could even beat Beerus, let alone this other guy.

From what I gather, I say he's stronger than Beerus but I dunno about Whis.

edited 28th Oct '14 8:52:35 PM by Nikkolas

Nikkolas from Texas Since: Dec, 2009 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#8644: Oct 28th 2014 at 9:06:15 PM

Wait wait wait, I'm looking at some posts on Kanzenshuu and I had indeed already seen how it was claimed Buu Saga Base Goku wasn't as strong as Freeza.

Now, do we know if Goku was suppressed?

More importantly, I see a lot of people claiming Goku was only 80,000,000 at the time. Where are people getting that number from? I mean, I guess they could have said it, but I kinda doubt it...

i really need to see that damn movie.

edited 28th Oct '14 9:07:18 PM by Nikkolas

BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#8645: Oct 28th 2014 at 10:20:28 PM

Well we already established that the Super Saiyan and beyond is a pretty damn big multiplier.

If he's 80 Million in the Buu saga and up in his base form, then Super Saiyan would bump him up to 4 Trillion, and that's only Super Saiyan 1 mind you.

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#8646: Oct 28th 2014 at 10:36:52 PM

4 billion, you mean.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#8647: Oct 28th 2014 at 10:43:33 PM

right, my bad.

EDIT: Taking that into account, then it makes sense Beerus wouldn't believe Goku would be able to beat Freeza's Full Power.

edited 28th Oct '14 10:45:28 PM by BlackYakuzu94

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#8648: Oct 29th 2014 at 1:12:47 AM

Getting stronger wouldn't justify Gohan using Super Saiyan again, because the whole point of Ultimate was to circumvent the need to it. And the story gives absolutely no reason for this, while you could make up a bunch (the power up wore off, Gohan somehow trained to get the ability again, whatever) GT offers none so it creates a plot hole.

Goku might've been suppressed when talking to Beerus, although a lot of fans won't accept that possibility.tongue In case you haven't seen Battle of Gods Nikkolas, Beerus says "you don't look as if you can beat Beerus as you are, but it seems you can power up by becoming this Super Saiyan" to which Kaio says he is correct and well informed. Whether that means Kaio was saying Beerus was right about both statements or just the Super Saiyan part. A lot of people that this as confirmation that the base Saiyans never surpassed Freeza, but I think it's vague enough to still believe what you want. And of course you can always choose to disregard Battle of Gods.

80,000,000 is not Goku's official power level, but it's a pretty popular choice for his Boo arc base. I use it myself, I think it's the most fitting level for him.

Ssj3Gojira Arashi Shigehito from The Event Horizon Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Arashi Shigehito
#8649: Oct 29th 2014 at 2:12:40 AM

Like I said Saiga, Gohan used both Mystic and Super Saiyan in Battle of Gods, so either Toriyama forgot about that fact, or it got retconned.

Let's see if you can get past my Beelzemon. Mephiles, WARP SHINKA!
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#8650: Oct 29th 2014 at 2:35:39 AM

That was an actual mistake. In earlier screenshots and trailers we saw Gohan use Super Saiyan to fight Beerus but when fans pointed out the error they redrew all the footage, except the God ritual which had everyone as a Super Saiyan.

Battle of Gods dropping the ball doesn't excuse GT anyway.


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