Manga/Dragon Ball

because now you can use girl broly to hype up how amazing guy broly is gonna be.

I wonder if the Tournament of Power would have had noticeably better pacing if they had taken a page from the Royal Rumble, only started with around 30 fighters in the ring (say all the competitors from U9, 7, and 10, which would be the two lowest mortal levels universes and a universe that the Ze'no's have reason to be annoyed with) and had the other fifty fighters jump in either over time or as previous fighters were eliminated. That solves issues like Jiren literally not doing anything during the early parts of the tournament and everybody ganging up on Universe 7.

Yeah, that or maybe only 2 fighters from each universe to start and over time bring out more. Could let characters have better reasons to survive longer and also give some weight to the time limit. I honestly thought the time limit was set up to help strategize with fusion dances, but nope, didn't factor in. Speaking as someone who prefers the Anime (With the exception of transformations which I'll admit the Manga handled better.) even I thought the tournament rules weren't really well integrated into the story. The only time someone was punished for breaking the rules for something that wasn't even brought up as a rule. Though considering the flight rule was enforced by the world, maybe the no killing rule was also enforced by the space, Like you actually COULDN'T kill anyone even if you tried. Course if that was the case it would have been more interesting just to say it officially.

Sonic and DB together at last:

Hope you like sprite animations, because this is really long. So long, you'll all be pregnant by the time it's over.

They don't even need an excuse, we already knew Earth had the strongest people in universe 7. And it's a good idea anyway not to introduce new Universe 7 characters for the TOP when we've got a limited team size and the familiar characters are heavily outnumbered by new characters as it is.

Could not disagree more. That's simply not how narratives work. Tertiary characters are an incredibly important tool for writers, refusing to use characters in a tertiary role is a handicap that benefits no-one.

Attempting to use everyone would result in a clusterfuck and it still wouldn't be meaningful. Like many of the fodders being used in the anime.

So no, I don't think people are missing the point, they're just not beholden to a naive and unrealistic ideal.

On the chapter: I like that Kale's rampage is having an impact, but I'm surprised at how many people she is eliminating (and how quickly). This was definitely a very rushed chapter. I like that she has gone after her own team, and the way she took out Magetta was nice. Know that we're getting Broly, I think that the way her power is being handled here is going to tie in much better with that and I like that this chapter presents the power up as a pretty extreme double-edged sword. The fact that Universe 11's teamwork is enough to overwhelm Kale is a bit of a stretch to me, though.

I think it's a neat detail that Caulifla originally pick-pocketed the potara. It fits her character and is pretty funny. But man, Kafla looks great here. The smug panels are precious and she's pretty fun. I like that she's already a Super Saiyan from the start, and that they explain it as balancing Kale's power with a more stable mind. Cabba did well here in rescuing Kale and facilitating the fusion.

As for Gohan fighting Kafla, I think he might do the mutual ring out with her. I can see Toriyama's notes saying that he lets himself be rung out to take down a powerful enemy but leaving things open as to who that is. If he doesn't get rung out here, one way he might win is because Kale and Caulifla were transformed when they fused, which is supposed to result in the fused person being Mode Locked until they run out of energy and die - though that might not be a thing with potara being retconned to temporary.

While I like these developments, this chapter was incredibly rushed. Didn't we already get official word that this arc is concluding in December? That would coincide with the movie. Reading this chapter, it feels like everything that happened was probably the plan, but the pacing at which it was done was sped up in order to prepare for the movie (particularly the stuff with Aniraza).

If that's true, then that's such a poor idea. The manga was doing well by taking its time instead of trying to stay ahead of the anime, which initially caused it to suffer. If it does end up being rushed it will be quite disappointing to sacrifice the quality in order to promote the movie. But I shouldn't really expect different from the franchise at this point.

I'm afraid to ask but...what is the comment section like?

I meant for the sonic x db animation

Edited by Fedetropes on Jul 22nd 2018 at 8:51:04 AM

Like I have no problem with them just sticking to the Earth cast cause yeah there’s no logical reason to look anywhere else cause that’s where the unvierses strongest people are.

It’s about the principle of the thing. I just inherently disapprove of something that limits the setting like that.

Even if they never explore space ever it should be kept open as is.

Space was already limited.

Frieza ruled the entire universe, and there was no one else to challenge him. All the strongest dudes worked under him. When he was wiped out, there was no one left but remnants of that bunch, and Toriyama had to go with the Androids and Cell, and then to the demon world to find people who could match the heroes.

And there's already all the talk about how Beerus, Buu and Frieza all likely contributed to the lower Mortal Level of Universe 7.

I did see a YT video that basically put it best, that Toriyama "blew his wad on the first jerk."

By that he meant that Jiren being introduced as the strongest guy in all the multiverses meant that, despite the fact that DB had gone to the vastness of space, despite the fact that it had introduced 12 whole new universes and a seperate timeline... there is absolutely no room to introduce someone stronger than Goku without causing an extreme plot hole or introducing another batch of universes.

Freeza was basically that but in original Z, and it causes a lot of confusion (if Shin is a good guy why didn't he kill Freeza?) Now they're having to bring back people who were sleeping somehow, like Beerus or Broly.

"Could not disagree more. That's simply not how narratives work. Tertiary characters are an incredibly important tool for writers, refusing to use characters in a tertiary role is a handicap that benefits no-one.

Attempting to use everyone would result in a clusterfuck and it still wouldn't be meaningful. Like many of the fodders being used in the anime."

By fodder, I am not referring to tertiary characters, but to narratively useless characters. In fact, I agree with the point you brought up; tertiary characters are tools, that's their main purpose in a narrative, but neither the anime nor the manga version of the To P used them as such. In both versions, they were meaningless, time-wasting filler.

They're not used to establish tone or stakes or abilities or weaknesses or knowledge or motivations. They don't contribute to character development or move the plot forward. (In fact, they keep the plot from moving forward.) They're not used for anything, and yet they dominate so much of the anime's screentime and the manga's allotted panel space.

In DB and DBZ, I can point to most of the low-level fighters, and I can argue that their existence has meaning. The fight with Cui, for example, shows that Vegeta has gained a new sensing ability, hints that the battles on Namek will hinge on trickery and deception, and demonstrates the moral character of Freeza's troops and Freeza himself (sadistic cowards who panic when they lose their strength advantage.) 90% of the To P contestants offered nothing of the sort in a setting that demanded their meaningful participation. If the only fight that matters in this arc is Goku vs. Jiren, then they shouldn't have even bothered with a battle royale in the first place.

Edited by galleyfox on Jul 22nd 2018 at 9:09:40 AM

That's always kinda been his style as far back as the Red Ribbon Army being the most power evil army on the planet that no else (not even the world government army) can stand up against.

Now they are defeated, and Earth is devoid of any other threats, because who could stand up to someone who defeated an entire army. Of course, he did solve that issue with Demons, and then aliens, but...well, what is there now?

The only way I see Dragon Ball permanently ending is something like this:

Goku realizing that his threshold of strength is quickly closing up on him, comes up with an idea so stupid both Vegeta AND Frieza call him a lunatic. Goku goes full Wukong and challenges the Gods of Destruction to a fight, 12-v-1. Goku uses Blue Kaioken x20 to match up with the gods, but he starts getting beaten up quickly. Despite this, Goku knows the gods are actually holding back, so he yells at them to use their full power. Of course, this leads to Goku nearly dying as a mass of bruises, but this is where it kicks in.

Goku unlocks Ultra Instinct once more and starts fighting evenly with the gods. Since Goku has gotten stronger since the tournament of power, the gods are surprised at how he's being able to keep up. Beerus knows what's up though, so all he does is just smile. Goku's instinctive dodging and unpredictable techniques eventually tires out the gods, giving him an opening to do a massive Godly Display to take them out. The Grand Priest claps at Goku's performance, but Goku looks straight up at him and asks for more. He wants to fight the Angels.

All the other angels are confused, but Whis just laughs. The Grand Priest stalls for a bit but then agrees, as all 13 angels start rushing at Goku. Even with Ultra Instinct, Goku starts having trouble since the angels have mastered the technique for ages. Dark lightning starts erupting from Goku, knowing that his power is starting to run out, he does the unthinkable. "KAIOKEN!" Goku combines two life-risking power-ups to double his already immense power. At this point, he's becoming a sparkling red blur dashing between the angels catching them off guard. Then all of a sudden, a burst of black lightning knocks everybody out cold.

The Zenos are happy with the fight, but wonder where Goku went. The Grand Priest put himself together and suggests that Goku might have accidentally overestimated his limits and imploded himself to non-existence. The Zenos are saddened by the prospect, but then have an idea and asks the Grand Priest for the Super Dragon Balls. They then wish for Goku to come back to reality. Goku is confused at what happened, but Whis tells him everything. Finally realizing his limits, Goku is contempt with where he's at now and returns home.

Years pass, and a new World Tournament is about to commence. Goku is awaiting a certain reincarnation to become his student and teach him everything he has learned over the years, and to pass on the power of Ultra Instinct to a new generation. As decades pass, Uub becomes the new savior of the multiverse, and Goku in his old age asks Vegeta to fight one last time, somewhere on the of the universe. Some say their results ended in a beautiful supernova that can be seen from all parts of Universe 7.

Edited by Rinsankajugin on Jul 22nd 2018 at 1:06:10 PM

Ya know, I can be okay with that

I have been thinking about this recently especially after seeing Megalobox which had a good dynamic between its MC & Rival that I think it be cool to bring in a new Rival relationship with Goku & a new character except it’s the newbie who’s the underdog, not Goku who functions as sorta a Hero Antagonist.

A young guy with the classic Rocky motivation, in that it’s not about winning or losing but going the distance, proving that you have the real grit & mettle of a true warrior despite your humble beginnings.

Watching the dub version of the Hit arc part 2.

I gotta say, I like the expansion of his abilities. It's not a surprise that he's never needed to actually train. He always killed his enemies before ever had a chance. Fighting Goku in a tournament was both the best and worst thing for him. It's a good thing he never tried to kill Goku seriously, because he hit the same wall nearly everyone else who fights Goku hits:

You get one good shot. It's especially funny since he's probably the most efficient of Goku's would be assassins, but unfortunately you can't ever fight a long term battle with Goku. Time and time again, he's proven that the more time he has to fight you, the more of a chance he has to beat you.

Hell, if he'd fought 17 and 18 in the Android arc, I honestly think he'd have found a way to beat them before he burned up all his energy, because that's just what he does...when the plot allows it.

Him never having trained is really weird though. Like how did he get so strong? That's even worse than Freeza.

New◊ image of what might be Planet Vegeta in the new movie.

Especially since he’s very technical & skillful.

That’s not something you can just do naturally.

Huh interesting scenery.

I don't remember. Was it that he'd never trained or that he'd never pushed his Time skip past .1 seconds? He definitely trained afterwards though, since Goku said he was more powerful than last time in their second fight.

Edited by Moth13 on Jul 22nd 2018 at 10:36:07 AM

The way he phrased it, I get the feeling Hit meant that once he'd learned how to use Time Skip, he'd never bothered training any further because that ability won him all of his fights.

Hell, even without Time Skip he's still the most powerful mortal being in all of Universe 6. It's no wonder he's never had to train: until he crossed universes, no one could touch him.

Yeah. I would have assumed he'd have to have trained his body and specific techniques, with his time limit being the only thing improved in the fight.

Edited by Saiga on Jul 23rd 2018 at 12:38:40 AM

I assumed that Hit had trained, but it was centuries ago and he never tried to train his time-skip. By the way, my headcanon for the "time dimension" ability is that it's made of all the cumulative time he's taken over the centuries he's been using the time-skip. Like, every time he uses the time-skip, it adds an extra 0.1 seconds to the amount of time he has within that pocket dimension. Before his fight with Goku, he tried to only use the Time Dimension as a last resort, since it takes him a lot of time to build it back up only 0.1 seconds at a time. After his fight with Goku, however, his time-skip had improved to either 0.5 or 1 second (I can't remember which), which is why he's willing to use it more often.

Honestly, the idea that once he got his time skip fully mastered that Hit didn't see the need to train makes sense.

I mean, he's an assassin; polite, professional, but only needing one plan to kill everyone he meets.

That plan being, freeze time and shank the hell out of them (or whatever murdery action is appropriate).

Again, the tournament worked against him, since he'd probably never had to pull his punches before, so I bet he didn't know how hard to hit someone to not kill them, which meant he was probably vastly underestimating the amount of force needed to put down Vegeta (and then Goku, who is the much bigger problem).

We also see that fighting Goku and being forced to get better probably meant he's refined his abilities and become better. That's one thing about Goku: even if you don't catch up to him, fighting him does make you want to improve yourself.

Everyone who's survived a battle with him is stronger than they were before.

Its kind of weird that Hit is the strongest person in his universe and also an assassin.

It kind of runs into the Freeza problem. A bit less because you can assume that Hit wouldn't want the hassle of running an empire.

At the very least how Hit’s rematch with Goku went was very anti-climactic.

Literally just Goku powering through, lame as fuck really.