Manga/Dragon Ball

As much as I dislike Minus, I'm seeing the potential for a bigger issue in regards to Goku's backstory. It looks like they're going with a Designer Babies-type story in regards to Broly and I'm concerned they might try to have Goku be one of them as well.

It's possible. Gogeta vs. Broly is an extremely common fight in games and other non-canon media.

Edited by LordVatek on Jul 20th 2018 at 5:02:21 AM

Hey if Broly came back Gogeta might. Anything’s possible in this wild & crazy time.

And that might further ruin Goku’s origin by stating that he’s actually a special Saiyan destined for greatness due to his genes instead of a crap one who became as strong as he is through working hard & being raised by a kind human being.

Wouldn’t mind if Broly does get it though.

Edited by slimcoder on Jul 20th 2018 at 2:05:27 AM

The main difference between Goku and Superman's origins is that Superman was sent to Earth to protect it, while Goku was sent to Earth to destroy it. Minus doesn't change that, and that's the most important part, for me.

I'm betting Freeza vs Broly takes place on a different planet, and Bulma is there for scientific reasons and she watches the fight. She comes back to warn Goku, which is what the line "so this is the guy" is all about.

Edited by PushoverMediaCritic on Jul 20th 2018 at 2:18:28 AM

No Minis changed that.

Bardock & Gine sent Goku away explicitly to protect him & were planning on bringing him back after making sure the coast was clear.

Hell that last panel of them together holding each other looking at Goku’s ship flying off is pretty much a shot for shot remake of Jor-El & Lara launching Supes off Krypton.

Minus made Goku’s origin a more clear rip-off of Superman’s own origin. It simultaneously damaged both Goku & Bardock’s character in the end.

Edited by slimcoder on Jul 20th 2018 at 2:18:36 AM

Something I noticed: Goku's wearing his undershirt while Broly is transforming, but he's not wearing it while the giant sphere of energy is expanding, so they're different scenes.

He's got half the undershirt on, it's battle damaged.

Yeah, but he's not wearing it fully, so unless Broly's transformation itself blasts off half of Goku's shirt, they're different scenes. I'm betting that the expanding ball is a giant attack Broly's firing at Goku after they fight for a bit after Broly transforms.

It probably is two scenes mashed together (trailers often do that) but it could also just be an error.

Wonder how and when Ultra Instinct will play a part.

My bet is in response to the aforementioned giant ball attack.

the three DB movies/specials they are remastering for this do make me think gogeta will be the one to beat broly. we got flashbacks for the bardock special, and broly is obvious, but unless resurrected hitler is the secret final villain, i'm guessing its gogeta thats the big thing from that movie thats now a thing. and yes the trailers show one on one fights but you dont wait to spoil all the good bits in the first trailer

How did you get Gogeta from any of that?

Edited by Envyus on Jul 20th 2018 at 6:06:52 AM

It seems pretty obvious.

How? I don't get how what has been shown leads to Gogeta?

Edited by Envyus on Jul 20th 2018 at 6:11:44 AM

"I liked Minus, it dropped all the stuff I thought was stupid from Father of Goku (like Bardock being as strong as King Vegeta or the future sight)."

I don't think I've ever disagreed with anyone as much as I have now.

The future sight is a bit of a necessary weasel to get the plot rolling but in every other aspect Fo G is frikkin amazing. Its Bardock is vastly more interesting than in Minus. It does not retcon one of the most important details in Goku's backstory (why he was sent to Earth), but instead fleshes that aspect out. Bardock is a man punished for his murdering by being given a tiny view of fate without any power to change it.

Minus, on the other hand, is absolutely insipid and basically lays about one of the more interesting bits of the world with a machete for absolutely no benefit. Even Episode of Bardock is better than Minus, because that just ruins Bardock's character, it doesn't ruin Bardock and Goku.

So I read a theory about Broly being made in a lab. Now I'm wondering how many Z-Cells did they use to make him

I think Father of Goku is super overrated and tainted by nostalgia, much like the actual father of Goku is. Yeah, Bardock is an asshole in it, which is good, but he's also the most unique special snowflake of a Saiyan alive. He's inexplicably almost as strong as King Vegeta, he's given the ability to see the future for no reason, he's the only Saiyan who tries fighting against Freeza, who remembers him even 20 years later, and he gets to die with the satisfaction that his son will fight Freeza.

I think Father of Goku gets the general idea right, but the plot is outright bad and all over the place. Minus isn't any better, but it makes the scale smaller and is short enough that I can't really get mad at it.

If I were writing a Bardock-centric Dragon Ball prequel, it would basically be Father of Goku, except Bardock is just an average Saiyan in strength, there's no stupid future sight, and bits of Minus are included, like the aesthetic of the Saiyan homeworld and Gine is included. Also fix the plot.

Edited by PushoverMediaCritic on Jul 20th 2018 at 5:47:16 AM

I wouldn't be interested in that take, sorry. Nothing from Minus is worth adding to the story.

Edited by VeryMelon on Jul 20th 2018 at 9:17:58 AM

And yet it seems like they will be adding it.

I also liked that Minus at least explained why Freeza was sure all of the Saiyans were on Planet Vegeta, because he ordered them all there.

Father of Goku made it seem like Freeza just assumed they'd all be there and we were shown that they were still sending babies into Space(Goku), which is weird since Freeza was already planning on destroying Planet Vegeta at this point.

Edited by Cortez on Jul 20th 2018 at 10:05:38 AM

Yeah, Freeza specifically making sure that all the Saiyans are on Vegeta is better than him just assuming that most of them are and trying to clean up the ones that aren't. It's part of why Bardock sending Goku away himself doesn't bother me, because Goku getting sent away as part of routine is completely incompatible with Freeza also going out of his way to get all the Saiyans in one place before he destroys their planet.

Why is Bardock being as strong as King Vegeta an issue? He just got Zenkai boosts until it happened. That was the reason Frieza was concerned. If Zenkais can make a low class warrior that strong what would they do for an elite like the King?

That assumes Frieza and his men know Goku was about to be sent out. It's also possible Frieza thought the planet was destroyed before Goku's pod left.

Edited by Kostya on Jul 20th 2018 at 10:42:02 AM

If Freeza's going to send all the Saiyans back to Vegeta, it follows that he would also stop all Saiyans from leaving Vegeta. There's no reason why Freeza wouldn't have that intel on hand since the entire Saiyan species worked for him.

Becuse it raises the question of how King Vegeta is still the king if some low-class dude can get just as strong as him just from routine missions.

Edited by PushoverMediaCritic on Jul 20th 2018 at 7:45:55 AM

It does feel kind of weird that Bardock is so strong when Goku and Raditz were both such weaklings

It's not impossible but it feels more like the tail wagging the dog. Because Goku was so powerful when Bardock was introduced clearly his dad needed to be powerful too

Except that ignores that Goku got that powerful through a weird bunch of circumstances, not just getting his ass kicked a lot

It doesn't matter but Goku's dad being important and some elite warrior just doesn't fit

It's a good enough standalone but I don't want it to be something that actually reflects on Goku if that makes sense

I haven't seen the movie in a while but I was under the impression Bardock was kind of a glutton for punishment. Saiyans only get Zenkais after a serious beating. Most Saiyans work in teams to dominate their opponent so they don't get beat up enough.

As for the King he probably didn't fight much unless he was required so there weren't as many opportunities for him to get a Zenkai.

In my mind, there's absolutely no way in hell that Saiyan society is anything other than Asskicking Equals Authority, especially considering how Vegeta talks up being the prince in the context of his strength. If some low-class wretch can become as strong as the king just by doing routine missions, than how is that king still in power? You'd think that the kingship of the Saiyans would rotate constantly if the level of power their king has isn't actually that hard to get, except that their planet is named after Vegeta, and there are stories that indicate that Vegeta has been in charge for a long time.

It may not seem like a big deal, but Bardock being that strong opens up a huge plothole for me.

Edited by PushoverMediaCritic on Jul 20th 2018 at 8:04:32 AM