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Nikkolas from Texas Since: Dec, 2009 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#8501: Oct 11th 2014 at 10:59:38 PM

Ehhh, people debate which character or form is stronger sometimes but I've never heard anyone argue against DBZ's power ranking system. Like I said there, it's very simple A > B > C Logic with very little in the way of variables. Maybe something like Krillin's Kienzan or Buu's regen but otherwise, it just comes down to you having more power as determined by Scouter/numbers/beating certain people.

I dunno, it's just frustrating. It's their complete dismissal of P Ls s something juvenile that got under my skin. The Daizenshuu and that one manga I think DB was published in put just as much stock in P Ls as I do. I'm tempted to remind them of this fact; that they went back and assigned figures to everyone pre-Saiyan Saga. Yeah, that shows how "unimportant" Battle Power is. Not.

edited 11th Oct '14 11:01:18 PM by Nikkolas

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#8502: Oct 11th 2014 at 11:34:45 PM

Well, stuff like Cell being stronger is pretty new to me, but I've heard people not realize power and other stats were correlated loads of times. Like thinking that Boo without his regeneration could be beaten by the humans because he's not durable.

Most often, though, I see people thinking emotions/skill will allow the (much) weaker character to beat stronger characters, especially when saying that's how it works in real life - ignoring that real life has a much lower ceiling of strength, meaning the gaps encountered are never that wide, and also that this isn't always the case in real life either. There's less of a disparity in strength between the world's strongest man and someone with severe muscle dystrophy than a lot of the gaps in Dragon Ball, and that's a gap that skill or being passionate could never account for.

But yeah, the series itself never craps of battle powers, especially not when you see how the guidebooks go back and add more of them for the fans to digest, or an extra being included during the manga's run to detail more battle powers - if the point of them was just to be wrong, these would be completely pointless. They were given to provide fans with more information.

I feel a lot of people who call battle powers BS must be one or more of the following -

  • Refusing to believe it because the measuring of them couldn't work in real life (in which case, why the fuck are you reading any sort of fantasy fiction)
  • Resenting the placement of characters they like as lower on the system
  • Obsessed with underdogs winning
  • Over-reacting to inflexible fans who take battle powers too far, being extremists of the opposite end of the spectrum
  • Simply ignorant / persuaded by others without strong knowledge of the series
  • Pricks

edited 11th Oct '14 11:37:00 PM by Saiga

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#8503: Oct 12th 2014 at 12:42:36 AM

I feel like the few times anyone with a lower power level defeated someone with a higher power level, it was by either artificially boosting their own level to surpass them (Kaioken, Super Saiyan transformations), or by using a technique that produces a more powerful attack (Piccolo killing Raditz, Goku nailing Vegeta with a Spirit Bomb to wear him down, ect.)

The closest aversion is some of Super Buu's stalling antics, and even then that's more or less breaking off the fight or forcing a draw than actually winning.

edited 12th Oct '14 12:43:57 AM by Anomalocaris20

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#8504: Oct 12th 2014 at 12:49:42 AM

Vegeta was heavily implied to be weaker than Zarbon in their second match. Instead of raising his power more to match Zarbon's, he opted for lowering Zarbon's with that barrage of blasts.tongue

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#8505: Oct 12th 2014 at 12:57:15 AM

Huh. Considering how badly Zarbon got owned, I figured Vegeta had long surpassed him even in monster form.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#8506: Oct 12th 2014 at 1:07:57 AM

Mainly Vegeta is able to dodge his attacks, but he immediately blinds him with dirt and does a lot of damage with a punch to the back and a lot of Beam Spam and then announces that now that Zarbon's battle power has fallen he can't win. Showing Beam Spam isn't actually useless when it appears in the manga.

Ssj3Gojira Arashi Shigehito from The Event Horizon Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Arashi Shigehito
#8507: Oct 12th 2014 at 1:09:28 AM

It's still pretty useless though.

Let's see if you can get past my Beelzemon. Mephiles, WARP SHINKA!
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#8508: Oct 12th 2014 at 2:16:48 AM

No, not really. The only times it's completely ineffective is when the difference is so great any attack would be. Even in cases where one fighter was a lot stronger than the other (Goku vs Cell) Goku's use of it put Cell on the defensive and was the only time Goku was actually putting pressure on Cell.

Nikkolas from Texas Since: Dec, 2009 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#8509: Oct 12th 2014 at 3:00:47 AM

Hey Saiga, what is your take on this? http://www.kanzenshuu.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=27294

I always figured USSJ was just another stage of SSJ 1 thus massively inferior to SSJ 2. Is that wrong?

Rinsankajugin Since: Feb, 2012
#8510: Oct 12th 2014 at 5:37:24 AM

Ya think Goku could have been able to do Kaioken while as a SSJG (God Kaioken) or would that have been too much?

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#8511: Oct 12th 2014 at 5:48:10 AM

If you follow the guidebook boost of 100 x base / 2 x SS1 for SS2 it is pretty hard to make both graded forms weaker than it and still fit what we see in the series itself. From how easily Cell defeated Vegeta, it looks like Grade III gives a hell of a boost for Trunks to end up considerably stronger than Cell. I always liked it having the same power boost as SS2 though, seeing SS2 as being Grade III done right. Others have said it should be more than 2 x to match the scene with Trunks and Cell, and also because Goku upon learning it surpassed Cell (people assume this was at the very start of his training, so he'd still be fairly weak without the form, but there's no way to tell thanks to how time passes faster in the RoSaT).

It is indeed a substage of Super Saiyan 1, but that doesn't mean it couldn't be stronger than SS2 since the form is all about forcefully raising your power. As SS2 isn't all about that, it doesn't have to be stronger, and it might be possible to do the same thing in SS2 for the same crappy result.

[up] It might not even be able to multiply the Godly ki, making it not very useful.

Rinsankajugin Since: Feb, 2012
#8512: Oct 12th 2014 at 7:05:03 AM

I've been looking at AMVs of Dragon Ball recently and I gotta ask... why Linkin Park?

Why not any of the BMG and songs from the series?

edited 12th Oct '14 7:05:27 AM by Rinsankajugin

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#8513: Oct 12th 2014 at 10:21:38 AM

It's a shame we never got a Battle Power measurement on Monster Zarbon. It would put all the debate about where Vegeta fell in relation to him to bed, and I'm personally curious to know how Monster Zarbon compares to the Ginyu Force.

[up] Because the 90's.

edited 12th Oct '14 10:22:14 AM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
FOFD Since: Apr, 2013
#8514: Oct 12th 2014 at 11:06:09 AM

[up][up]

Everyone's got a song worth singing that fails in comparison to their favorite Linkin Park song.

About Xenoverse, is there an actual "story mode" for your OC like there was in Ultimate Tenkaichi, or is it just a series of what-if missions like Budokai 1 and Tenkaichi?

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#8515: Oct 12th 2014 at 2:32:15 PM

Well, yes. Trunks summons you with the Dragon Balls, tasks you with stopping the people screwing with time, and most of that will involve past battles being interfered with. But Towa, Miira and Demigra will also be involved somehow.

Rinsankajugin Since: Feb, 2012
#8516: Oct 12th 2014 at 2:57:29 PM

It's essentially an original story mode that involves you, the Time Patrol Ranger, from stopping the What-if scenarios from happening and messing up the timeline.

Also, is it just me, or does anyone else think Mr. Popo is of Majin decent? He has the traits of one, with the jolly exterior, the big belly and the powerful magic.

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#8517: Oct 12th 2014 at 3:08:23 PM

Those aren't Majin traits though. Pure Boo has Majin traits.

Rinsankajugin Since: Feb, 2012
#8518: Oct 12th 2014 at 3:21:54 PM

Well they are now! tongue

Plus, all Majins are genies. Mr. Popo is a genie. Put 2 and 2 together, bibidi-babidi-buu and now there's 4!

edited 12th Oct '14 3:22:33 PM by Rinsankajugin

FOFD Since: Apr, 2013
#8519: Oct 12th 2014 at 3:39:47 PM

[up](x4) (x3)

What I mean is, is there an overworld, or an RPG aspect to it? Is it just a mission select? I've seen pictures of some kind of overworld Kami's palace, but that could just be a 'forum' for matchmaking.

Rinsankajugin Since: Feb, 2012
#8520: Oct 12th 2014 at 3:48:05 PM

There is Toki-Toki City, where you can visit various shops, join tournaments, get a wish from Shenron if ya have the balls, talk to the locals and friends, fight said people, and do various missions that're given to you by Trunks and whoever your mentor is.

Also, from what I see, there's both a leveling-up and ranking system for your character, and different clothes also seem to give your CAC different stats. Lots of RPG-esque stuff for a fighting game.

edited 12th Oct '14 3:48:36 PM by Rinsankajugin

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#8521: Oct 12th 2014 at 4:01:40 PM

Clothes that give you stats?

Ugh. Soul Calibur IV did that. The Rainbow Pimp Gear was strong with that one.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Rinsankajugin Since: Feb, 2012
#8522: Oct 12th 2014 at 4:15:32 PM

Yeah, I heard that in the beta, Raditz's armor was the best to get. Also, Raditz was surprisingly OP. I blame Towa and Mira. tongue

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#8523: Oct 12th 2014 at 7:08:06 PM

[up][up] From videos I've seen, Rainbow Pimp Gear will be strong here as well. Not really happy about that, but I guess it comes from DBO.

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#8524: Oct 12th 2014 at 9:26:06 PM

Ugh, don't like Rainbow Pimp Gear. Aesthetic equipment and practical equipment should not cross over.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
Shlugo_the_great King of Burgers from Far Far Away (On A Trope Odyssey) Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
King of Burgers
#8525: Oct 13th 2014 at 2:12:44 AM

I once played an MMO where there was a practical gear that usually came in sets anyway and there was a different slot for aesthetic gear that did nothing for stats but would override the appearance if used. I thought it was nice.


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