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BaffleBlend Hey there! Having fun? from Somewhere Since: Dec, 2012 Relationship Status: LET'S HAVE A ZILLION BABIES
Hey there! Having fun?
#7901: Aug 22nd 2014 at 5:45:09 PM

And there's also Gameplay and Story Segregation. There's that.

"It's liberating, realizing you never need to be competent." — Ultimatepheer
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#7902: Aug 22nd 2014 at 5:56:59 PM

Well....

I can't argue for the Frieza disk thing that much, but he just needs to be more careful. I agree that it didn't do Frieza much good, so I'll drop that.

Do we even know that a double Kikoho won't work? It's never been done.

As for the Mafuba, maybe it can work. We didn't know it was possible to survive it until Tien did when Piccolo Daimou managed to avoid being sealed by it by accident.

Also, we do know it works on things besides Demons, because Piccolo is sorta kinda an alien if you recall. It may be that the Mafuba works more on beings that are evil.

Anyway, I'd like to point out that one of the best techniques in the series, the Solar Flare was invented by a ''human''. I'm talking about taking the techniques they have, and find ways to improve them to work around they're lower power levels

I do think the humans can be relevant if the effort were made. There are potential ways for them to do just that, they just have to be willing to explore it.

I know I'm beating a dead horse here, but I'm not quite ready to drop it, and I'm not convinced yet that it's not possible, it's just that Toriyama isn't interested in trying.

One Strip! One Strip!
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#7903: Aug 22nd 2014 at 6:09:18 PM

Well a double Kikoho won't work if multiple Kikoho don't work. If we're generous and assume it doubles power, still useless. If we're super ridiculously generous and assume it like squares the Kikoho's power, it's useless. So there's no reason to think it's useful just because it hasn't been done.

No. Piccolo is a demon and an alien. Being an alien shouldn't be relevant, because there's no actual difference between humans and aliens in general - on Namek, the humans are aliens.

The Taiyo-ken isn't that great. It's certainly useful, but anyone can do it anyway. So it's not really an advantage for humans, it doesn't matter who invented it in a 'verse where ki techniques are piss easy to copy.

The humans totally can be made relevant. If you're happy with brutally buttfucking logic. Otherwise it's not going to happen.

The best one can do, and what I had planned for a fanfic I won't go through with, is to make them Androids and then give them minor opponents. As Androids they'll at least be stronger than the base Saiyans, still outclassed by the Super Saiyans and Piccolo, but not to a ridiculous degree. It'd at least make some sense for the enemies to have some opponents on their level while still having higher tiers for the stronger opponents, and at that level their battles can still seem meaningful.

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#7904: Aug 22nd 2014 at 6:16:21 PM

Android enhancements might be the only thing that could work.

The Kikoho is strong. This was the technique that briefly stopped second stage cell (yes, he looked stupid, and wasn't that impressive anyway, but in terms of Power, he was on a whole different level).

If Tien could find a way to increase the destructive power while reducing the risk to his life (he did manage to fire it multiple times).

Logic doesn't need to be butt-fucked, nor should it be.

Logic is a classy lady. She deserves to have people looking at her when they.....

......

What?

Anyway, getting back to the point, I'm not sure how good 17 and 18 were as fighters truthfully. I always got the feeling they weren't really martial artists in the same vein as the rest of the Z Warriors, but not being able to get tired gave them an edge, but there's really no confirmation of that.

The combination of the Z Warriors actually Martial Arts skill with the kind of power being an Android gives might be extremely helpful for them.

I still think they need to learn the Kaiouken as well.

My point is that they need to get training again, start experimenting with their techniques, and see if there are ways to improve them.

One Strip! One Strip!
BaffleBlend Hey there! Having fun? from Somewhere Since: Dec, 2012 Relationship Status: LET'S HAVE A ZILLION BABIES
Hey there! Having fun?
#7905: Aug 22nd 2014 at 6:22:47 PM

The humans totally can be made relevant. If you're happy with brutally buttfucking logic. Otherwise it's not going to happen.
Like I said, Gameplay and Story Segregation. That's an Acceptable Buttfuck of Logic.

"It's liberating, realizing you never need to be competent." — Ultimatepheer
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#7906: Aug 22nd 2014 at 6:26:13 PM

That only works for Video games.

And I don't mind that, but I'm talking in series.

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Rinsankajugin Since: Feb, 2012
#7907: Aug 22nd 2014 at 6:26:29 PM

It's a vidja game. I could create a short, non-muscular human and beat an army of Buus if I wanted to.

As for the series, why bother, it's 30 years old with a bunch of holes that are currently being filled up with supplements and what-not. Just enjoy the fun and action. grin

edited 22nd Aug '14 6:27:42 PM by Rinsankajugin

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#7908: Aug 22nd 2014 at 6:33:32 PM

.....

Meh. Alright.

I totally won though I guess it's not that important.

One Strip! One Strip!
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#7909: Aug 22nd 2014 at 6:38:17 PM

The Kikoho isn't strong, it didn't do a thing to Nappa. Even if that was only with one arm, Ten has said in his fight with Goku that he won't use the Kikoho since it won't work. It's used as a desperation move because you have to be desperate to use something so shit. It is, however, a shockwave, which allowed to hold down Cell and do absolutely nothing else. Base Trunks was able to throw around Cell with a shockwave of his own, and that wasn't even a named technique.

If logic shouldn't be buttfucked, the humans shouldn't be relevant. Kaio-ken = inferior Super Saiyan, doubtful if such a thing could even work for Androids (the only time where it might be helpful, since the Android boost is permanent and greater than Kaio-ken).

Any development the humans can come up with, the Saiyans/Piccolo can copy.

@Baffle Yeah I get that, but I'm not talking about games here. Especially when the games usually have very terrible stories anyway.tongue

[up][up] These days the supplemental material is creating more holes rather than filling them.

edited 22nd Aug '14 6:39:52 PM by Saiga

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#7910: Aug 22nd 2014 at 6:43:10 PM

[up]

Well ok, it's done anyway.

I totally won. But you should totally see if that Fanfic idea would work.

I will say that the Earth is gonna be fucked when Goku is finally unable to win. It almost happened in Battle of Gods, even when he did get another power-up.

edited 22nd Aug '14 6:43:54 PM by HandsomeRob

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Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#7911: Aug 22nd 2014 at 6:43:58 PM

Well it wasn't fucked in the Boo arc, despite Goku being completely unable to fight the enemy at several points.

Or at the Cell Games.

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#7912: Aug 22nd 2014 at 6:47:48 PM

That's because in the Cell Games, Gohan powered up (and nearly botched it in the process).

In the Buu Arc, multiple people botched things when they could have won.

Goku himself, Gohan again, Goten and Trunks by fucking around, Vegeta by crushing the Fusion Earring, Goku again and Vegeta by crushing the earrings again, etc,etc.

They won in spite of themselves.

Mr. Satan came closer to saving the world just by being nice to Buu.

And lets not forget that they didn't try and prevent the Androids from being made after being warned about it three years ahead of time.

They could have wished to find Gero's lab and smashed all his shit instead of killing him. He's also a former member of a Terrorist organization, so they could have had him locked up, but instead they decided to train for his arrival.

One Strip! One Strip!
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#7913: Aug 22nd 2014 at 6:51:10 PM

Point is that Goku being unable to win doesn't mean shit because there are more capable people than him around.

Shlugo_the_great King of Burgers from Far Far Away (On A Trope Odyssey) Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#7915: Aug 22nd 2014 at 6:58:01 PM

Gohan and Gotenks. Sure they fucked up, but 10 times out 10 they'll outperform Goku. Goku would have invariably done worse in their situations by dying immediately and without resistance.

And then there's Vegetto.

Shlugo_the_great King of Burgers from Far Far Away (On A Trope Odyssey) Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
King of Burgers
#7916: Aug 22nd 2014 at 7:01:44 PM

I wouldn't trust Gohan and Gotenks to save the world no mater how much stronger they are than the person attacking it.

And last I checked Goku is stronger than both of them put together.

And Veggeto can't even be created anymore.

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#7917: Aug 22nd 2014 at 7:08:31 PM

Actually, I think Gohan is still stronger than his dad normally, as Super Saiyan God is a unique thing.

And Super Saiyan Gotenks is more powerful than Super Saiyan 3 Goku, he just has a shorter half life

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Shlugo_the_great King of Burgers from Far Far Away (On A Trope Odyssey) Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
King of Burgers
#7918: Aug 22nd 2014 at 7:10:25 PM

Goku still kept most of the power after the transformation ended because he's Goku. Beers said so.

And after that He can access his full power in SSJ 1, no need for SSJ 2 or 3.

edited 22nd Aug '14 7:11:28 PM by Shlugo_the_great

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#7919: Aug 22nd 2014 at 7:12:56 PM

Goku's stronger in the context of BoG, but I'm just talking about the manga where he's a joke compared to them.

And given that the Kaioshin posses the ability to create items out of nothing, Vegetto should still be an option. The Potara had to come from somewhere originally, why would the Kaioshin be unable to create them?

Even if not for him, there's the regular dance method.

Rinsankajugin Since: Feb, 2012
#7920: Aug 22nd 2014 at 7:14:03 PM

Having a closer look at the scan, it looks like I was right at there going to be a Changeling option for customization.

That means DBXV is essentially going to be a fusion of DBO and DBH ideas, and that's awesome.

Shlugo_the_great King of Burgers from Far Far Away (On A Trope Odyssey) Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
King of Burgers
#7921: Aug 22nd 2014 at 7:15:38 PM

Don't cling to the past Sai-man, Fusions and potential unlocking is So Last Season, these days it's all about random rage boosts and apotheosis. tongue

Though Gogeta should make a comeback. His appearance was like the coolest 30 seconds in all the movies.

edited 22nd Aug '14 7:15:50 PM by Shlugo_the_great

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#7922: Aug 22nd 2014 at 7:17:47 PM

It's not clinging to the past, BoG is just shit.tongue

[up][up] That's clearly the design of Froze, Dragon Ball Heroes' Hero avatar for the Freeza Clan. I wonder if they'll be a playable option or just appear as NPCs? I only really wonder that because they seem like they'd be harder to come up with customisation options for.

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#7923: Aug 22nd 2014 at 7:17:55 PM

Gogeta should be plenty strong enough as-is to handle just about anything. Goten and Trunks are nothing compared to their fathers, yet look how strong they are fused. Gogeta could probably have made handiwork out of Super Buu; Vegito is just overkill assuming he's significantly stronger than Gogeta.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#7924: Aug 22nd 2014 at 7:18:37 PM

Gogeta is a more inefficient Vegetto though. not much point to him.

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Shlugo_the_great King of Burgers from Far Far Away (On A Trope Odyssey) Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
King of Burgers
#7925: Aug 22nd 2014 at 7:20:22 PM

The point is that it's easier to convince Vegeta to fuse for 30 minutes than for a lifetime.

[up] [up][up]don't be hating on Battle of Gods now, it finally put some fresh air into the franchise.

edited 22nd Aug '14 7:21:04 PM by Shlugo_the_great


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