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Moth13 Since: Sep, 2010
#78801: Feb 16th 2018 at 5:19:59 PM

Zarbon relies on scouters to know power. He's obviously saying "My number is higher than yours so I should win!", not "My number is higher than yours even after getting injured, which I have no way to tell".

Vegeta is able to pressure Super Perfect Cell until Vegeta runs out of energy

That was not a good showing considering how Vegeta got owned almost immediately.

edited 16th Feb '18 5:20:51 PM by Moth13

Fedetropes Call me Blast, not Fedetropes from Doomed universe Since: Dec, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Call me Blast, not Fedetropes
#78802: Feb 16th 2018 at 5:20:39 PM

That genderbend goku is really good

¡PONLE QUE DIGA!:"¡HUMONGOSAURIO HASTA LA MUERTE!"
randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#78803: Feb 16th 2018 at 5:22:48 PM

Is that Caulifla?

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#78804: Feb 16th 2018 at 5:25:54 PM

[up][up][up] He literally responds to 'your power has fallen' to 'no matter it's STILL higher than yours'. Yes, he is taking his injured state into account, even if he can't tell his exact number.

Before Vegeta could sense ki, he could still tell how his injuries impacted his performance during his fight with Goku's group - he even says that if he went injured, he could take 1 or 2 guys like Oozaru Gohan - which matches up perfectly with the official battle powers.

Vegeta got owned because he couldn't keep up the barrage. Cell was unable to move while it was going on, so yeah, it was the most effective thing Vegeta could do given the massive power difference.

RJ-19-CLOVIS-93 from New Zealand (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#78805: Feb 16th 2018 at 5:29:43 PM

@ randomness4: Well Caulifla is his Distaff Counterpart

Actually, a good question is what did Dr Gero create Cell for anyway? Cell comes to believe it's to kill everyone, but he's really not a reliable source and there's no canonical evidence Dr Gero wants to destroy the world. Did he just want to make the pinnacle of life?

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#78806: Feb 16th 2018 at 5:33:02 PM

Cell was probably designed to be part of Gero's original revenge scheme - Cell mentions that Gero abandoned the project when it was taking too long, and delegated it to his computer.

So he probably hoped he'd be able to create Cell without delegating, and when that didn't pan out he didn't want to give up completely but wouldn't put off his revenge for it.

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#78807: Feb 16th 2018 at 5:33:50 PM

I'm kinda inclined to agree with Cell, that he was Gero's one last "fuck you" toward life as a whole.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#78808: Feb 16th 2018 at 5:36:26 PM

Its why I respect Gero.

He truly despised Goku & was willing to commit all sorts of atrocity's all to achieve his vengeance so he went all out.

In the end he single-handily created one of the most abominable beings in the entire multiverse as a spiteful final fuck you to life in general & succeeded in killing the man he so desperately wanted to die.

He deserves props really.

edited 16th Feb '18 5:37:25 PM by slimcoder

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Cross (Don’t ask)
#78809: Feb 16th 2018 at 5:40:13 PM

Too bad he wasn't aware of any of that.

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#78810: Feb 16th 2018 at 5:40:26 PM

It was overkill really

Just blow up the world with Goku on it

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#78811: Feb 16th 2018 at 5:42:29 PM

Hey if your planning on taking revenge then overkill is the only option.

Ya gotta cover all yo bases after all. tongue

[up][up] How aware are you of stuff happening on Earth while in Hell?

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#78812: Feb 16th 2018 at 5:48:58 PM

Its why I respect Gero. He truly despised Goku & was willing to commit all sorts of atrocity's all to achieve his vengeance so he went all out. In the end he single-handily created one of the most abominable beings in the entire multiverse as a spiteful final fuck you to life in general & succeeded in killing the man he so desperately wanted to die. He deserves props really.

Goku was then revived years later.tongue

Also, if you take Trunks into account, then his revenge was totally pointless since Goku died before he even finished his revenge.

One Strip! One Strip!
Moth13 Since: Sep, 2010
#78813: Feb 16th 2018 at 6:25:32 PM

@Saiga: I figure that's probably a translation quirk, since I checked the Kai Dub, Kai Sub, and Z Sub, and nothing like that is implied in any other adaption of the scene.

Vegeta got owned because he couldn't keep up the barrage. Cell was unable to move while it was going on, so yeah, it was the most effective thing Vegeta could do given the massive power difference.

A scene where Vegeta shoots a bunch of blasts, it looks like it worked, only for it to be revealed that it did nothing followed by Vegeta quickly getting owned is not the scene to pick when you want to talk about how Ki spamming in the manga worked differently than the dozen identical scenes the anime added.

Hobgoblin Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#78814: Feb 16th 2018 at 6:31:37 PM

there's no canonical evidence Dr Gero wants to destroy the world.

Conversely, he doesn't seem to care about the Earth or its inhabitants very much. Just look at his introductory scene.

Man, looking back, 19 and 20 were extraordinarily unsettling in their first appearance and maintained that menace until the fight between Goku and 19 started.

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#78815: Feb 16th 2018 at 6:36:21 PM

[up][up] Then Vegeta's actions and dialogue wouldn't make sense. Uses dirty tactics and and remarks on their effectiveness - then reveals he's stronger than before - then trades blows with Zarbon until he gets in a hit, instead of just straight up overpowering the weakened Zarbon.

And you're blatantly misinterpreting what I said about Vegeta's use on Cell. The fact that he got owned is not a fault of the blasts, it just shows how much Cell is stronger than him. The fact that he's so much weaker than Cell makes the ki blasts' ability to pin him down more effective than anything else he could have done, and is definitely not a case of the ki blasts being 'useless'. I didn't even bring up comparisons to the anime.

As for comparisons to the anime, the anime examples generally go with the ki blasts having literally no impact on the fight (as they're filler) so they don't match Vegeta's use against Cell at all.

BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#78816: Feb 16th 2018 at 6:42:55 PM

Does "pinning him down" really count for anything when all it succeeded was stalling him for a few seconds? It doesn't seem that different from literally throwing ki blasts and having zero effect anyway.

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
Sigilbreaker26 Serial Procrastinator Since: Nov, 2017
Serial Procrastinator
#78817: Feb 16th 2018 at 6:45:31 PM

Yeah, it's practically indistinguishable.

All of Vegeta's ki blast spams feel basically like the raging tantrum of a child than like any sort of reliable tactic.

"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#78818: Feb 16th 2018 at 6:46:17 PM

Its why its Vegeta's signature attack after all. tongue

edited 16th Feb '18 6:51:07 PM by slimcoder

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#78819: Feb 16th 2018 at 6:50:29 PM

[up][up][up] The end result isn't that different, but that's because of the situation. Vegeta's not strong enough to take advantage of it and they don't have anything to stall for (unlike the later Genki Dama vs Boo example).

But the fact that they can put pressure on someone with as much as a power advantage as SPC shows that they're absolutely not weak. Against a fairer opponent, it'd be even more effective. Or if Gohan had just charged up a Kamehameha while Cell was pinned, that'd be helpful.

What I'm trying to say is: it's not a good example of "this technique is worthless" if it requires you being more than twice as powerful to be able to endure it while being completely unable to move through it.

[up][up] I've already pointed out the examples and Vegeta doesn't even use the move that often. I think you're projecting onto him.

edited 16th Feb '18 6:51:12 PM by Saiga

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#78820: Feb 16th 2018 at 6:57:03 PM

And you're blatantly misinterpreting what I said about Vegeta's use on Cell. The fact that he got owned is not a fault of the blasts, it just shows how much Cell is stronger than him. The fact that he's so much weaker than Cell makes the ki blasts' ability to pin him down more effective than anything else he could have done, and is definitely not a case of the ki blasts being 'useless'. I didn't even bring up comparisons to the anime.

Wait. Did that Vegeta fires a bunch of ki blasts at Perfect Cell happen in the manga as well? W As it different from how it went in the anime? Cause...I can't really picture anything Vegeta could do—barring the Final Flash, which could have killed Cell if not for Vegeta not being able to get all of it, and Cell's (yet revealed) central regeneration node—actually pinning Cell down.

...then again, if Tien can do it with a fucking Kikohou, then who's to say really?

One Strip! One Strip!
EpicBleye drunk bunny from her bed being very eepy Since: Sep, 2014 Relationship Status: In Lesbians with you
drunk bunny
#78821: Feb 16th 2018 at 7:14:18 PM

I don't know if it was brought up already, but it seems DBZ Abridged may very well end after they finish the Cell Saga.

"There's not a girl alive who wouldn't be happy being called cute." ~Tamamo-no-Mae
BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#78822: Feb 16th 2018 at 7:15:19 PM

[up][up][up] But the end result is that it didn't accomplish anything but stalling, so I don't get how it's "useful" in this case.

If somebody says "beam spams accomplishes nothing" and cites a situation where it literally accomplished nothing, I don't think they're wrong in that assumption.

Yea, it's not completely worthless sure, but it hasn't exactly been an effective move a lot of the time either when it's used outside of a few, very specific instances.

edited 16th Feb '18 7:15:44 PM by BlackYakuzu94

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#78823: Feb 16th 2018 at 7:15:37 PM

[up][up][up] Manga version of Super Perfect Cell, when Vegeta loses his shit over Trunks dying.

[up] It's not that it's useful in that case, it just a good way of measuring how powerful the attack is to achieve that.

And it would DEFINITELY be inaccurate to use it to argue the attack is ineffective, because that ignores the massive power difference in play.

edited 16th Feb '18 7:17:22 PM by Saiga

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#78824: Feb 16th 2018 at 7:18:12 PM

I always just took that as Cell toying with Vegeta, not actually being incapable of moving while it was happening.

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#78825: Feb 16th 2018 at 7:20:00 PM

That wouldn't explain his reaction or the look on his face as he's getting pelted. They can't even SEE him through the dust.

Also, Yakuzu, your last point is just wrong. The move simply isn't used often period, meaning that it is effective more often than it is not when it gets used.

edited 16th Feb '18 7:20:47 PM by Saiga


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