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PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#78151: Feb 10th 2018 at 7:58:32 PM

Well, it's not like that's actually an extant formula. It'd be a plot twist if Goku actually beats Jiren. At this rate, Jiren winning the Tournament of Power is the most plausible option, based on past precident.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#78152: Feb 10th 2018 at 7:58:33 PM

Alright I'm gonna now watch Kai on Toonami, a real Dragon Ball show. [awesome]

Even if its the beginning of the Ultimate Gohan vs Super Buu fight the writing there is far superior to Supers.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#78153: Feb 10th 2018 at 8:00:15 PM

Yeah, the elimination order has been pretty standard, the exact order isn't entirely straightforward (the order the humans go in, Piccolo eliminated before 18) but the 'groups' that get eliminated are totally predictable.

[up][up] Jiren winning wouldn't actually be that predictable. As often as Goku loses, no villain truly wins at the end. Goku already 'lost' to him once. I mean, it wouldn't be entirely surprising, but Goku winning the whole tournament is not subversive at all.

edited 10th Feb '18 8:01:31 PM by Saiga

Sigilbreaker26 Serial Procrastinator Since: Nov, 2017
Serial Procrastinator
#78154: Feb 10th 2018 at 8:00:23 PM

[up][up][up] True, Goku doesn't have a very good record in tournaments, but this isn't your standard tournament.

[up][up] I still stand by ranking U6 above Buu.

edited 10th Feb '18 8:00:51 PM by Sigilbreaker26

"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"
CountofBleck Starting to believe in himself from New Wirral (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Starting to believe in himself
#78155: Feb 10th 2018 at 8:04:18 PM

Going to be that guy to point out that even though Vegeta did go straight to Blue while heavily inured, he kept getting knocked out of Blue when he got hit until he couldnt even move anymore. So theres that I suppose.

I wonder if Jiren's Backstory would be more compelling in a universe where Death isn't cheap. going on a quest to find your killer is one thing but I can rarely recall a time where revenge quest actually failed so horribly that everyone is dead or abandoned you again Too bad it was crammed in like....3 minutes?

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#78156: Feb 10th 2018 at 8:06:36 PM

This episode really could've used like 5 less minutes of fighting and 5 more minutes of Jiren backstory.

HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#78157: Feb 10th 2018 at 8:06:49 PM

Goku doesn't actually get clean-cut victories all that often, though.

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#78158: Feb 10th 2018 at 8:08:49 PM

He gets them often enough that it's not subversive to do it here.

I'm not saying they shouldn't have him win at this point - there isn't much alternative that could be satisfying - but the tournament has gone in an incredibly standard way so far.

Lionheart0 Since: Oct, 2009 Relationship Status: I'm just a hunk-a, hunk-a burnin' love
#78159: Feb 10th 2018 at 8:08:56 PM

edit

edited 10th Feb '18 8:09:05 PM by Lionheart0

Tomodachi Now a lurker. See you at the forums. Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Now a lurker. See you at the forums.
#78160: Feb 10th 2018 at 8:09:01 PM

You know fucking what?

I'm throwing out my last freaking theory.

You know who killed Jiren parents, and turned him into the biggest dick in the universe?

Jiren himself did.

Jiren is not an expy of All might, Superman or Batman. Jiren is an expy of the freaking Sentry, and he was born with the power of a million supernovas. That's why he couldn't defeat the entity and his friends left him behind: HE WAS THE MONSTER, he has two personalities, and his wish from the Super Dragon balls is to destroy that evil inside him.

Of course, such plot twist would be asking too much from this series.

I'm dissapointed as hell.

edited 10th Feb '18 8:10:06 PM by Tomodachi

To win, you need to adapt, and to adapt, you need to be able to laugh away all the restraints. Everything holding you back.
HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#78161: Feb 10th 2018 at 8:09:52 PM

[up] That is literally the first plot twist in the entire franchise, though.

Tomodachi Now a lurker. See you at the forums. Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Now a lurker. See you at the forums.
#78162: Feb 10th 2018 at 8:11:57 PM

That's the point. Dragon Ball plots are pretty derivative.

To win, you need to adapt, and to adapt, you need to be able to laugh away all the restraints. Everything holding you back.
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#78163: Feb 10th 2018 at 8:12:49 PM

[up] This is a whole new level though.

Watching Kai back to back really shows how better the original is.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Sigilbreaker26 Serial Procrastinator Since: Nov, 2017
Serial Procrastinator
#78164: Feb 10th 2018 at 8:13:25 PM

[up]x7

Let's look at all the various arcs (not counting hunt, because that didn't really have a final fight):

  1. 21st: Loses to Roshi, closer than Roshi thought it would be but still loses.
  2. RRA: While he does hit a bump in the road in the form of Blue and Taopaipai, and later Ghosthan, Goku is a fucking whirlwind of destruction this entire arc.
  3. 22nd: Loses to Tien via sheer bad luck. If not for one truck Goku would have won.
  4. King Piccolo: Ouch.... ouch, yeah, Goku wasted his ass.
  5. 23rd: Very close but again, Goku nabbed this one despite a handicap or two
  6. Saiyan Saga: Fucking skin of the teeth, and was entirely a team effort from everyone Nappa didn't kill.
  7. Freeza Saga: Goku stomps Freeza, has a huge power advantage
  8. Cell Saga: Isn't even Goku
  9. Buu Saga: Goku wins but needs support.

Also, Dragonball isn't derivative much, apart from itself. It basically invented the genre its in.

edited 10th Feb '18 8:23:23 PM by Sigilbreaker26

"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#78165: Feb 10th 2018 at 8:22:42 PM

Beerus: Goku loses.

Freeza 2: Goku loses but steals the kill.

U6: Goku loses, Monaka wins.

Future Trunks: No-one wins. Everyone loses, except Zeno who got a friend.

edited 10th Feb '18 8:24:59 PM by PushoverMediaCritic

Sigilbreaker26 Serial Procrastinator Since: Nov, 2017
Serial Procrastinator
#78166: Feb 10th 2018 at 8:24:30 PM

Secures the kill.

Also, I'd argue the Hit subplot doesn't end in the anime till their final battle in the interarc stuff.

"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#78167: Feb 10th 2018 at 8:25:00 PM

Freeza isn't that different from other times Goku loses, gets revived and is able to finish off the enemy.

[up] At the very least, throwing a fight shouldn't be equated with other losses.

edited 10th Feb '18 8:25:35 PM by Saiga

BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#78168: Feb 10th 2018 at 8:31:00 PM

You know the episode is bad when Pushover can't even find much positives to talk about :V

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
Soble Since: Dec, 2013
#78169: Feb 10th 2018 at 8:32:09 PM

So not only did Gero build 17, 18, and Cell way above the level they needed to be to beat Goku, not only were they stronger than Goku after he had far exceeded Gero's initial data, bhe mad doctor built a bomb with enough explosive yield to counteract an energy blast from Jiren who is several magnitudes above where Goku was at the time.

Gero is the master of overcompensating/

I'M MR. MEESEEKS, LOOK AT ME!
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#78170: Feb 10th 2018 at 8:34:16 PM

I don't think it's bad. The stuff I liked I really liked. It's just not as good as the other recent episodes. 17 really should've just refuelled Goku and Vegeta. He and his sister really should've been refuelling the whole team throughout the tournament.

Tomodachi Now a lurker. See you at the forums. Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Now a lurker. See you at the forums.
#78171: Feb 10th 2018 at 8:34:53 PM

Pushover did say some positive things.

You know the episode is bad when I'M PISSED OFF ABOUT IT. And I wasn't pissed off about the Future Trunks ending, but with this episode, I'M FUCKING AM.

To win, you need to adapt, and to adapt, you need to be able to laugh away all the restraints. Everything holding you back.
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#78172: Feb 10th 2018 at 8:36:53 PM

[up][up][up]17 had his bomb removed, that was just a ki explosion.

Soble Since: Dec, 2013
#78173: Feb 10th 2018 at 8:37:55 PM

-shrug- I liked it. Better animation, or at least more interesting shots and choreography than usual, and the usual "Goku and Vegeta refuse to stay down," shtick, Freeza came back and got wrecked in a manner i enjoyed more than Toppo doing it. Like, Jiren wasn't having any of that sh't.

Everything I'm disappointed in is something I've come to expect. So it doesn't really bring the episode down.

[up] I'm sticking with Gero overcompensated. Because Androids having stupidly powerful stupidly stronk ki that cancels out even stronger attacks is silly.

Good guys need to stop blowing themselves up in this franchise. :/

edited 10th Feb '18 8:39:50 PM by Soble

I'M MR. MEESEEKS, LOOK AT ME!
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#78174: Feb 10th 2018 at 8:39:38 PM

[up] Eh I really don't see much of any good choreography or very good animation.

Just like 2 decent moments.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Moth13 Since: Sep, 2010
#78175: Feb 10th 2018 at 8:40:21 PM

Yeah I thought this episode was way better than last week's Vegeta vs Toppo.


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