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randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#77901: Feb 8th 2018 at 12:57:22 PM

[up][up]I don't know why Fusion-Ha gets a negative vest separate from the characters' actual clothes, it should just be Combi like Potara.

edited 8th Feb '18 12:57:48 PM by randomness4

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#77902: Feb 8th 2018 at 1:04:38 PM

Probably because that's traditional Metamoran garb.

BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#77903: Feb 8th 2018 at 1:06:37 PM

You know, I notice Saiga tends to look at any oddities of the series from a wattsonian perspective most of the time while others who refute, Sigil in this case, from a doylist perspective.

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#77904: Feb 8th 2018 at 1:12:28 PM

[up][up]Apparently the Fusion-Ha was implemented with clothes beam...

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
Tomodachi Now a lurker. See you at the forums. Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Now a lurker. See you at the forums.
#77905: Feb 8th 2018 at 1:40:09 PM

I don't like Gogeta's name: it puts too much focus on Goku.

To win, you need to adapt, and to adapt, you need to be able to laugh away all the restraints. Everything holding you back.
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#77906: Feb 8th 2018 at 1:41:14 PM

And Vegetto doesn't but too much focus on Vegeta?

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#77907: Feb 8th 2018 at 1:42:49 PM

[up][up][up][up]

Which was which again?

I recall one was an out of universe perspective and the other was in universe.

edited 8th Feb '18 1:43:17 PM by HandsomeRob

One Strip! One Strip!
Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#77908: Feb 8th 2018 at 1:44:59 PM

Watson is a character in-universe in Sherlock Holmes, Doyle is the book's out-of-universe author.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
Tomodachi Now a lurker. See you at the forums. Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Now a lurker. See you at the forums.
#77909: Feb 8th 2018 at 1:47:16 PM

Yes, which is the point: Vegeta is awesome.

I'm joking, though, don't mind me.

To win, you need to adapt, and to adapt, you need to be able to laugh away all the restraints. Everything holding you back.
randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#77910: Feb 8th 2018 at 2:00:51 PM

Vegetarian's name takes up most of the spelling in both names...

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#77911: Feb 8th 2018 at 2:16:36 PM

Why would Goku be in a fusion that uses his saiyan name that he never personally uses?

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#77912: Feb 8th 2018 at 2:19:21 PM

Because he didn't decide the name and just went with it.

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#77913: Feb 8th 2018 at 2:21:32 PM

So yeah it does sound like Vegeta is in charge of that fusion

edited 8th Feb '18 2:21:54 PM by Bocaj

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Sigilbreaker26 Serial Procrastinator Since: Nov, 2017
Serial Procrastinator
#77914: Feb 8th 2018 at 2:24:02 PM

...which would explain why Vegitto didn't work...

"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"
VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#77915: Feb 8th 2018 at 2:26:31 PM

You know, I notice Saiga tends to look at any oddities of the series from a wattsonian perspective most of the time while others who refute, Sigil in this case, from a doylist perspective.

I prefer criticizing from a Doylist point of view, but I dip into the Wattsonian view when I think it better suits my argument.

Sigilbreaker26 Serial Procrastinator Since: Nov, 2017
Serial Procrastinator
#77916: Feb 8th 2018 at 2:27:51 PM

I mainly rely on Doylist as well, I use Watsonian for when I look at stuff like character motivations since that needs to make sense within a world.

"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"
BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#77917: Feb 8th 2018 at 2:30:41 PM

It honestly depends on how I feel. I don't even notice when I argue from either side most of the time.

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#77918: Feb 8th 2018 at 2:32:26 PM

Does Vegeta ever stop calling Goku Kakarott?

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Sigilbreaker26 Serial Procrastinator Since: Nov, 2017
Serial Procrastinator
#77919: Feb 8th 2018 at 2:33:30 PM

No, I don't think so. I think he even used Kakarott when he was sacrificing himself in the Buu saga.

"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#77920: Feb 8th 2018 at 2:34:43 PM

Depends on the issue to me. For what we were talking about with 18, I understand bringing up Doylist reasoning, but think Watsonian reasoning would be more prudent.

Toriyama doesn't strike me as the "women should stay in the kitchen" type. He was obviously never particularly interested in gender equality in that area, but I don't think he was opposed to the concept of women fighting itself, otherwise he wouldn't have even originally made 18 with the intention of her being a main villain.

edited 8th Feb '18 2:45:09 PM by LSBK

Kayeka (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#77921: Feb 8th 2018 at 2:35:15 PM

I think he called him Goku during the climax of the Buu saga, when he had his little character moment and acknowledged Goku as his better.

It was a one-time thing, though.

BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#77922: Feb 8th 2018 at 2:35:37 PM

Vegeta never knew him as anyone other than Kakarot, and even if he knows Goku prefers his Earth name, he does cuz "muh Saiyan pride"

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#77923: Feb 8th 2018 at 2:40:50 PM

[up][up][up]

I can agree with this. Toriyama (barring that Lady Red Manga someone posted here a long time ago) doesn't really seem to think about that sort of thing.

I suppose it's mostly that he doesn't really plot out long arcs for most of his characters; they have a job when they get brought in, and once that job is done, so are they.

Edit: As for Watsonian vs. Doylist, I argue from the Handsome Rob-ist perspective: the perspective that make me look the most right, and gets me what I want.

...I'm sure none of you are surprised by this.

edited 8th Feb '18 2:47:10 PM by HandsomeRob

One Strip! One Strip!
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#77924: Feb 8th 2018 at 2:54:13 PM

While I use both Doylist and Wattsonian depending, in 18's case I was thinking of the... eh, out-of-universe one.

I'm not just saying 'these are the story reasons 18 is weaker' I am saying 'these are the reasons Toriyama made her weaker for the story'.

My argument is that Toriyama had story reasons to write her that way, it's using the in-universe facts to speculate on the out-of-universe decision making. Hence my talking about things like hyping Piccolo.

I'm not even sure I do use in-universe perspectives more often, because I often say 'I think Toriyama was aiming for this/motivated by that' while trying to check that my conclusions would be consistent with what we see in the manga.

[up][up] Also worth noting that it no longer bothers Goku, after fighting Freeza he accepts his Saiyan heritage.

edited 8th Feb '18 2:55:31 PM by Saiga

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#77925: Feb 8th 2018 at 3:10:45 PM

I think it's important to consider both doylist and watsonian reasons

I can't think of any examples that aren't Quiet though

Forever liveblogging the Avengers

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