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It's too bad he didn't get his reputation from his actual character...
edited 7th Feb '18 3:29:26 PM by randomness4
Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.Oh yeah, definitely, I'm certainly able to take Cell more seriously than the other villains in his arc. I'm just comparing him to the other main DBZ villains. Cell's at his best when he's in his creepy Imperfect form, but as he rises through the forms he just becomes a generic asshole (albiet a charismatic one).
He hasn't got Vegeta's links to Goku's heritage, Freeza's Faux Affably Evil sensibilities, or Fat Buu's childish wierdness (though if we were to treat Super Buu and Kid Buu as seperate they would be waaaay at the bottom).
edited 7th Feb '18 3:34:56 PM by Sigilbreaker26
"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"Cell can't even compare...
Gohand going SSJ 2 I presume, that lameness.
edited 7th Feb '18 3:36:33 PM by randomness4
Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.Majin Boo was a fat clown, he cod still be menacing.
And Gero was menacing, until Toriyama switched tracks and knocked him down a couple of pegs. Before the fight with Goku starts he has plenty of menace, killing the civillians when Goku wants to move the fight, squeezing a dude's neck so hard it decapitates him, draining & impaling Yamcha.
Anyway, I think 16 is fine. He fits into the story beats of the arc quite well - refusing to fight, being a little weird, defending the Androids from Cell, letting Kuririn show some non-boner compassion, trying to stop Perfect Cell, motivating Gohan.
For his appearance in the future timeline, je could have just never been activated or destroyed before he could be. The Androids were vulnerable to destruction when inactive, since Kuririn thought about destroying an inactive 18.
Oh yeah, 16 is used alright. But you could give a lot of those duties to other people. You could have either 17 or 18 be the nice one, and have Piccolo be the guy who dies to inspire Gohan to go SSJ 2 (which I think would be much better, since he's the Krillin to Gohan essentially.)
edited 7th Feb '18 3:47:19 PM by Sigilbreaker26
"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"16 is great.
Also, I fully aware of how hellish the schedule for a Manga artistic Japan is. My issue is that Toriyama is apparently lazy even on top of that (waiting until the very last moment to draw up the entire chapter for the week).
Then again, his ability to crank out a weeks worth of work in a few days is admirable.
One Strip! One Strip!
Indeed it is. Impossible to picture.
16 has also become more important in the advent of Fighter Z what with his stellar gameplay & heavy story role that delves into the origins of him & that of his family.
edited 7th Feb '18 3:57:30 PM by slimcoder
"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."Piccolo dying to trigger Super Saiyan 2 would be a really bad idea. Way too similar to his first death.
And you COULD make 17 or 18 the 'nice' one... but it wouldn't be anything like the way 16 was handled. You couldn't have the same story beats because 16's personality is unique, and his level of power doesn't fit the other Androids, and 17/18 had a pre-existing bond which means they can't replace 16's dynamic.
You COULD remove 16, but I think doing so would hurt the story because you lose the neat moments he had. I haven't seen a subtitute suggested that would be better.
edited 7th Feb '18 4:02:33 PM by Saiga
I do see your point about Piccolo dying being kind of the obvious choice and something that had already happened, but the problem with 16 dying to push Gohan beyond is that there is no relationship there, and it's just a bit emotionally manipulative. That it works at all comes down to that scene just being really well written and presented, because if there was not top-notch execution there it would basically just be Krillin's death done again but with zero investment.
Heck, you don't even neccessarily need to have a death. You could just have the entire gang be in danger and present Gohan as deciding to make a difference now when he couldn't - or wouldn't -before.
edited 7th Feb '18 4:10:33 PM by Sigilbreaker26
"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"Well, Gohan's seen people die before. This is supposed to be a moment when he snaps so hard he temporarily goes insane.
I mean, he's also seeing 5 friends, including his dad and his mentor figure, about to die, so it's not like he wasn't already being hit with unimaginable mental stress. I just think it's... eh, sort of like, Toriyama just decided "yeah, this guy will be the one to Krillin this arc" and landed on 16.
edited 7th Feb '18 4:17:16 PM by Sigilbreaker26
"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"Doesn't the fact that 16 was his trigger speak more about Gohan's character? That not being able to save a life, even if he barely knew him, generate a strong emotional reaction?
Like you said, the moment itself was well executed so it's not like it needed to be anyone else
A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.See, I was thinking that how there was no connection between 16 and Gohan...
And it dawned on me that it didn't matter.
Gohan was watching his friends and his father get torn apart...again, and was helpless to do anything...again.
Only he wasn't. He had the power; he knew he did, and all he had to do was bring it out, but he was unable to.
16 doesn't need to have an emotional connection to Gohan, because what he really is is the straw that broke the camels back. 16 is what Goku, and Krillin and Trunks will be if Gohan doesn't get his shit together and smear Cell across the desert floor. 16's speech made Gohan understand what he needed to do, and his death showed Gohan the price of failure. Actually, it reminded him of that price.
So yeah. 16 stays, and the scene really does work.
One Strip! One Strip!

He's a Generic Doomsday Villain, but he's the reason Gohan got such a following as a kid.
A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.