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HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#77601: Feb 6th 2018 at 12:27:03 PM

I do think some of us (myself included) can get a bit confrontational.

I also think there are some who are bad at defending their points, and that can lead to frustration when others who feel otherwise come down on them.

Plus, I still want to de-pope Saiga.

...You know, I'm not even sure if that's funny any more...or if it ever was. If I bring it up again, someone call me out.

One Strip! One Strip!
Sigilbreaker26 Serial Procrastinator Since: Nov, 2017
Serial Procrastinator
#77602: Feb 6th 2018 at 12:28:47 PM

This thread isn't too bad. The kinds of arguments are just the kinds of things Dragonball naturally generates because of its weird history.

"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"
Tomodachi Now a lurker. See you at the forums. Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Now a lurker. See you at the forums.
#77603: Feb 6th 2018 at 12:29:46 PM

Some of us aren't gifted with a natural silvertongue, so some of us (or myself only) has trouble explaining his points or defending his argument. Is kind of the reason why I sometimes don't enter in debates, as I feel I can't win any of them.

My only deal is to read, as the quiet lurker I am.

[up] Also this, Dragon Ball has a weird story, as most of the fanbase don't agree in what they generally like outside of maybe the original Super Saiyan transformation.

For example, I love the comedy segments of the characters and kind of dislike when they take themselves too seriously. A friend of mine, however, despises the comedy and hates when the characters don't act seriously.

I loved the Majin Buu saga when I was a kid and the Battle of Gods movie for a reason, as I generally find the Saiyan saga sort of boring in some parts.

edited 6th Feb '18 12:33:28 PM by Tomodachi

To win, you need to adapt, and to adapt, you need to be able to laugh away all the restraints. Everything holding you back.
Hobgoblin Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#77604: Feb 6th 2018 at 12:31:29 PM

Talk about anything on 4chan is a gamble. The story time threads are nice, though.

Moth13 Since: Sep, 2010
#77605: Feb 6th 2018 at 12:33:09 PM

The problem with this thread is that it has the tendency to get very confrontational or defensive when people confront some of this criticism and at time confront anyone who's say anything remotely positive about Super. Or point out the very ranty tone of this thread.

See: Everyone being shits to PushoverMediaCritic the other day.

Sigilbreaker26 Serial Procrastinator Since: Nov, 2017
Serial Procrastinator
#77606: Feb 6th 2018 at 12:40:35 PM

[up][up][up] Heck, I was talking to someone on another thread who thought the original SSJ transformation was a Deus Ex Machina. So you can scratch that as well.

"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"
Tomodachi Now a lurker. See you at the forums. Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Now a lurker. See you at the forums.
#77607: Feb 6th 2018 at 12:42:19 PM

Well, no one dislikes the kamehameha... right?

To win, you need to adapt, and to adapt, you need to be able to laugh away all the restraints. Everything holding you back.
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#77608: Feb 6th 2018 at 12:49:38 PM

Vegeta holding onto that pride in Z meant forsaking everything and everyone to prove he was the best there was at what he did. But now he isn't shouting from the rooftops, "I'M THE PRINCE OF ALL SAIYAN, AND YOU WILL KNEEL BEFORE ME!"

The issue is that Super DOES have Vegeta continue to act this way. Like, in episode 2 they had Vegeta repeat his realization from the Boo arc: admitting that Goku is 'number one' and that he would work on becoming better than him, instead of just insisting he was already better than him.

This arc... has Vegeta LITERALLY call himself number one at various points, including when he explains to Jiren about his pride, so that really fails to show the difference with his flawed pride from pre-character development Z.

[up][up][up] No one is shitting on PMC. If the responses to them are hostile then that would make their responses just as hostile, it's a two way street.

It seems people like painting the critical people of this thread as defensive and hostile while ignoring that they don't act in a very similar way.

edited 6th Feb '18 12:50:02 PM by Saiga

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#77609: Feb 6th 2018 at 12:49:51 PM

Not since Roshi first busted it out.

Still both the most awesome and hilarious thing I've ever seen.

One Strip! One Strip!
Sigilbreaker26 Serial Procrastinator Since: Nov, 2017
Serial Procrastinator
#77610: Feb 6th 2018 at 12:51:37 PM

I do wish they'd use the steering of the Kamehameha a bit more though.

Also, as they're seeing fit to have Veggie ignore previous character development, I wish they'd go all the way back to Namek saga Vegeta since that's him at his undisputed best, in my opinion.

edited 6th Feb '18 12:53:07 PM by Sigilbreaker26

"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"
Tomodachi Now a lurker. See you at the forums. Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Now a lurker. See you at the forums.
#77611: Feb 6th 2018 at 12:58:07 PM

Frieza was mostly the substitute for Namek Saga Vegeta in this saga: A villain with his own goals, who was humilliated by... well, the second fiddle, not the big bad. Close enough, I guess.

To win, you need to adapt, and to adapt, you need to be able to laugh away all the restraints. Everything holding you back.
BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#77612: Feb 6th 2018 at 1:07:24 PM

The problem with this thread is that it has the tendency to get very confrontational or defensive when people confront some of this criticism and at time confront anyone who's say anything remotely positive about Super. Or point out the very ranty tone of this thread.

Your literal first post in this thread was complaining how people are "bitching". But you're going to call out other people for being "defensive".

Pot meet kettle :V

This thread honestly isn't that bad, it's just people take any sort of criticism, no matter how neutral it sounds, as an "attack" on them and feel they have to "defend" themselves from it.

I see this all of the time on other websites, because for some reason, people on the internet have an extreme "with us or against us" mentality and that if you don't agree with someone on something 100%, that means you're a "hater" or "bitching". It's a hive mind mentality basically.

The problem isn't people "bitching" or "being overly negative", it's that people feel the need to defend themselves from a perceived attack because we don't agree with them that their favorite thing is the greatest thing ever.

I really don't care if people like Super or not, nor do I feel the need that I have to "defend" my stance. And this is why I don't really try to debate with some people in this thread, because then it just turns into a page long debate arguing what essentially comes down to personal preference and I have better things to do with my time.

edited 6th Feb '18 1:12:55 PM by BlackYakuzu94

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
GarnetRebeller96 Since: Nov, 2015
#77613: Feb 6th 2018 at 1:12:37 PM

It seems people like painting the critical people of this thread as defensive and hostile while ignoring that they don't act in a very similar way.

That depends on what you count as being defensive and hostile. Because there was two instant where I made a musing on how negative the thread is. And in both instances, I was accused of complaining about people not liking Super.

[up] A literal case in point.

edited 6th Feb '18 1:16:44 PM by GarnetRebeller96

Soble Since: Dec, 2013
#77614: Feb 6th 2018 at 1:32:25 PM

-jumps from page 3101-

I mean what he did was neither wrong nor right due to it being a very grey moral choice but overall the power boost & extra abilities was well worth it especially if his universe survives.

Well

I'm angry because somehow Toppo is the villain in this situation.

I suppose those are very fair points. I guess it is a Broken Aesop, or a mixed metaphor or something. It doesn't entirely work, but I appreciate what it seemed like the show was aiming for. I don't think Toppo is entirely the villain here, no, but a contrast between what he is now and what Vegeta is now seems like it could have been neat. So I write this off as another missed opportunity to give the TOP emotional weight - like when Zeno erased Universe 9 and everyone looked all serious for a moment, even Goku, and then went right back to treating it like a game of british bulldog next episode.

I think its telling how none of the Pride Troopers have discussed or mentioned using their wishes to help anybody. Vegeta of all people intends to at least bring back Universe 6. The troopers are supposed to be heroes but they're pretty much in this for themselves.

Anime!Dyspo picked up on Freeza trying to screw him and identified him as evil to the core. That's... kind of noble? Or maybe it just shows Dyspo is smarter the average bear/isn't Lawful Good. But other then that the only thing really proving that the Pride Troopers are heroic is that they took down a monster and saved some people. We saw stills of Frost receiving awards and heard accolades of his great deeds - he looked pretty heroic too, until he wasn't.

I think they're being more sincere with the Pride Troopers, but we're clearly seeing superhero archetypes being deconstructed through these characters. Jiren is "Superman," one of the friendliest, boy scout-iest heroes ever created, but his first action in Super is telling Goku to get lost. Toppo could be compared to Batman with his unbreakable willpower and poise, and yet here he is, breaking. And I'm sure I could make something up about Dyspo and it's just not coming to me because I didn't really give a crap about Dyspo until he fought Freeza, but obviously he's THE FLASH WONDER WOMAN.

Maybe he's an exile from a planet of cat people?

edited 6th Feb '18 1:43:25 PM by Soble

I'M MR. MEESEEKS, LOOK AT ME!
BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#77615: Feb 6th 2018 at 1:35:36 PM

A literal case in point.

You just came in after a debate had taken place and then complained, even if lightly, about how "negative" people were...but the thing is, nobody was actually being negative.

And this goes back to how people interpret any kind of criticism as "negativity".

In fact, I think it's a fallacy; you're accusing people of being defensive and negative when they aren't, which in turn makes them defensive and negative and then you can justify your claim.

edited 6th Feb '18 1:38:41 PM by BlackYakuzu94

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
GOI god of insanity from everywhere/nowhere Since: Jul, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
god of insanity
#77616: Feb 6th 2018 at 1:48:17 PM

Also I think the ideal was meant to be Toppo going the whole goal/ideal of the pride troopers is worthless and completely pointless nothing matters but survival. As in freiza was going about this tournament the right way and Toppo should copy him(as in frezia and Toppo are on the exact same page and in agreement(he'll Toppo straight up agrees with frezia) which really cause issues with how he was displayed that he went Go D for his universe despite saying fighting for others makes you weak and holds you back exactly the same reason vegata went Maji).

Though it was poorly executed and well God Toppo proved to be pointless in even throwing away the things he was fighting for did not give him the strength he needed.

The distance between insanity and genius is measured only by success. Insanity runs in my family. It practically gallops.
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#77617: Feb 6th 2018 at 1:49:26 PM

Some of the regulars in this thread (and in others, to be fair) are in denial that anything's wrong or that anyone is saying anything too mean when they're presented with criticism about the thread's atmosphere and discourse. This thread isn't quite as ready to jump down others' throats for dissenting opinions as the US Politics thread is, but there are a bunch of threads that are MUCH more relaxed and casual.

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#77618: Feb 6th 2018 at 1:52:42 PM

I think that depends on the subject we're talking about. Though honestly, that something isn't "relaxed" or "casual" doesn't mean that it's bad or toxic. You aren't casual about any of this either, you just also happen to be more positive than most.

And also, negativity isn't inherently bad either. I have never gotten the impression that anyone here is negative just for the sake of it, even Saiga has things he admits he likes, and he elaborates on the things he doesn't and why so you can't even claim it's just complaining for its own sake.

edited 6th Feb '18 1:56:44 PM by LSBK

Soble Since: Dec, 2013
#77619: Feb 6th 2018 at 1:54:23 PM

like the Naruto thread

I miss IANCE somedays

Though it was poorly executed and well God Toppo proved to be pointless in even throwing away the things he was fighting for did not give him the strength he needed.

I don't get why he needed to throw them away in the first place. Is that what Beerus does? Why make Toppo, a guy who upholds noble ideals, a God of Destruction anyway, and why are his powers tied to ruthlessness rather than rage? What was Belmod thinking?

edited 6th Feb '18 2:01:35 PM by Soble

I'M MR. MEESEEKS, LOOK AT ME!
BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#77620: Feb 6th 2018 at 1:56:09 PM

Yea, it is mostly related to the subject; politics is a mine field no matter which corner of the internet you are on.

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
GarnetRebeller96 Since: Nov, 2015
#77621: Feb 6th 2018 at 2:08:03 PM

You just came in after a debate had taken place and then complained, even if lightly, about how "negative" people were...but the thing is, nobody was actually being negative.

Making a light comment poking fun at the amount of complaining is hardly complaining.

And this goes back to how people interpret any kind of criticism as "negativity". In fact, I think it's a fallacy; you're accusing people of being defensive and negative when they aren't, which in turn makes them defensive and negative and then you can justify your claim
.

Accusing a person of complaining when they didn't seem pretty defensive to me. Like I literally had three or four people come after me over a trivial comment. Some with an incredibly passive sarcasm saying I was a benefit to society or something like that.

edited 6th Feb '18 2:11:53 PM by GarnetRebeller96

Ikedatakeshi Baby dango from singapore Since: Nov, 2015 Relationship Status: Singularity
Baby dango
#77622: Feb 6th 2018 at 2:13:25 PM

Can you show how it is "fun" to say people who are complaining is "salty"?

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#77623: Feb 6th 2018 at 2:15:24 PM

I don't get why he needed to throw them away in the first place. Is that what Beerus does? Why make Toppo, a guy who upholds noble ideals, a God of Destruction anyway, and why are his powers tied to ruthlessness rather than rage? What was Belmod thinking?

It's even weirder since a God of Destruction is apparently necessary and I'm pretty sure even Belmond's profile says "He doesn't abide evil." And then there's how the universes with the highest mortal levels seem to be like that in part because of the diligence of their destroyer gods, who are nothing like Beerus.

GOI god of insanity from everywhere/nowhere Since: Jul, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
god of insanity
#77624: Feb 6th 2018 at 2:16:56 PM

I don't get why he needed to throw them away in the first place. Is that what Beerus does? Why make Toppo, a guy who upholds noble ideals, a God of Destruction anyway, and why are his powers tied to ruthlessness rather than rage? What was Belmod thinking?

My guess is either it is needed in the beginning of being a god of destruction and you can adapt to it or it was just vermood/ the angel messing with Toppo,

same reason I guess goku was offered to be made into one by weis he was strong enough and well the main time since we have seen Go D their thing it was quite ruthless like waiting in the destroy position ready to destroy someone or just straight wreaking a city or more.

Belmont was probably thinking that he could either groom Toppo into the position that or just let's give him the chance and see what happens.

The distance between insanity and genius is measured only by success. Insanity runs in my family. It practically gallops.
Sigilbreaker26 Serial Procrastinator Since: Nov, 2017
Serial Procrastinator
#77625: Feb 6th 2018 at 2:17:46 PM

And the universes with the lowest mortal levels are the ones with Go Ds even less diligent than Beerus.

"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"

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