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randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#77551: Feb 6th 2018 at 8:04:50 AM

Which apparently wasn't necessary...

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
GarnetRebeller96 Since: Nov, 2015
#77552: Feb 6th 2018 at 8:05:54 AM

Not sure, toppo came close to overpowering him during the final explosion.

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#77553: Feb 6th 2018 at 8:14:06 AM

[up][up][up]He did, which actually makes the entire thing even stupider.

Honestly, it seems like the writers want us to believe that "giving things up for power!" is inherently evil, which isn't the case. You need to make the actual circumstances line up with that thinking, which didn't happen here. Majin Vegeta, since it's been mentioned, wasn't bad just because Vegeta gave up something important to him to be stronger, it was bad because it was literally turning himself over towards evil. That's not what happened here with Toppo, and Toppo had far better reasons to do what he actually did than Vegeta.

edited 6th Feb '18 8:14:58 AM by LSBK

Tomodachi Now a lurker. See you at the forums. Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Now a lurker. See you at the forums.
#77554: Feb 6th 2018 at 8:15:11 AM

Meh, at least that's how I see it.

To win, you need to adapt, and to adapt, you need to be able to laugh away all the restraints. Everything holding you back.
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#77555: Feb 6th 2018 at 8:18:06 AM

[up]I mean, that's fine, but I have to question why you still bother with the series if all you're going to say is "This whole thing is stupid and terrible, why am I still apart of it?"

While the rest of us complain, we still seem to have things we actively like. You don't even seem to have that.

edited 6th Feb '18 8:18:31 AM by LSBK

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#77556: Feb 6th 2018 at 8:26:53 AM

I think Toppo's giant Hakai ball almost overpowering Vegeta's Final Explosion is a pretty good argument in and of itself why Vegeta had to use the Final Explosion.

edited 6th Feb '18 8:30:59 AM by PushoverMediaCritic

Sigilbreaker26 Serial Procrastinator Since: Nov, 2017
Serial Procrastinator
#77557: Feb 6th 2018 at 8:30:23 AM

Majin Vegeta wasn't giving up stuff to become Majin so much as we was refusing to give up something - his pride. He was letting that take priority over those he cared about.

"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"
randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#77558: Feb 6th 2018 at 8:31:23 AM

[up][up]Makes sense...

edited 6th Feb '18 8:33:24 AM by randomness4

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#77559: Feb 6th 2018 at 8:32:17 AM

I think the implication was that since Vegeta was able to achieve godly power without sacrificing anything, Toppo could've done the same, he just didn't try hard enough and gave up.

randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#77560: Feb 6th 2018 at 8:35:39 AM

How could he have done the same?

Veggie just seemed to get the G.O.D. ability...

edited 6th Feb '18 8:36:26 AM by randomness4

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#77561: Feb 6th 2018 at 8:36:31 AM

He should have been a main character if he wanted power so much, obviously.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Sigilbreaker26 Serial Procrastinator Since: Nov, 2017
Serial Procrastinator
#77562: Feb 6th 2018 at 8:38:27 AM

Veggie got SSB through plot convenience. It's easily Super's most glaring contrivance since Vegeta never went through the ritual to get SSG. So holding that over Toppo is even worse.

edited 6th Feb '18 8:39:10 AM by Sigilbreaker26

"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"
GarnetRebeller96 Since: Nov, 2015
#77563: Feb 6th 2018 at 8:41:29 AM

Isn't that how every Saiyan get transformations?

Sigilbreaker26 Serial Procrastinator Since: Nov, 2017
Serial Procrastinator
#77564: Feb 6th 2018 at 8:42:01 AM

I mean, it's how Vegeta gets all of his. Goku got Super Saiyan the proper way. Goku got SSG the hard way. Other people after Vegeta sometimes get the forms the same way Vegeta did but it's always Vegeta who forces the rules to bend so that he can get what he wants.

edited 6th Feb '18 8:45:55 AM by Sigilbreaker26

"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"
GarnetRebeller96 Since: Nov, 2015
#77565: Feb 6th 2018 at 8:44:44 AM

And Goku, and Gohan, and Kid Trunks, and Kid Goten.

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#77566: Feb 6th 2018 at 8:45:08 AM

Yeah, saying "Vegeta got Godly so everyone should be able to" is only reasonable if you assume that the Vegeta thing isn't also bullshit.

But even without that, Toppo is specifically trying to be a God of Destruction, and Belmond and the U11 Supreme Kai act like this was a decision he had to make, so I trust them more than Vegeta on the subject.

[up]All of those examples trained to get where they were. But even if they didn't, again, it wouldn't make complaining about Vegeta any less valid. That you think other transformations were stupid doesn't make Vegeta getting God just because any less stupid. In fact, with Vegeta's even worse because unlike with all the other transformations, getting godly powers had a concrete process, and Super just decided to skip it because...reasons? And if I'm remember right in the movies they just had Vegeta do the ritual with the others offscreen but Super specifies "nope, he didn't do it he just 'figured it out'" with no elaboration.

edited 6th Feb '18 8:48:40 AM by LSBK

Sigilbreaker26 Serial Procrastinator Since: Nov, 2017
Serial Procrastinator
#77567: Feb 6th 2018 at 8:47:23 AM

Well, Kid Trunks and Goten were also pushing it a lot. But it's really Vegeta who sets the precedent.

edited 6th Feb '18 8:47:44 AM by Sigilbreaker26

"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#77568: Feb 6th 2018 at 8:52:35 AM

"Just figuring things out" is practically his superpower

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#77569: Feb 6th 2018 at 8:56:04 AM

Usually not this egregiously though. Other things are just normal techniques, this was implied to be something that just thinking and training couldn't get over, and yet he did, with no explanation.

GarnetRebeller96 Since: Nov, 2015
#77570: Feb 6th 2018 at 9:00:35 AM

All of those examples trained to get where they were.
.

Are you implying that Vegeta of all people didn't? Pretty sure he tried the hardest to achieve the form.

Meanwhile, Goku got it because Frieza pissed him the hell off by killing and targeting everyone around him, instead of just doing Goku in. Goku also did it again with Super Saiyan 3 with no explanation as to how he achieves it.

Gohan did train for Super Saiyan 1, but conveniently achieve SS 2 by Cell doing the same mistake as Frieza.

And both Kid Trunks and Goten got it because they just could do it for some unexplained reason.

So I really don't see how it's suddenly abomination against God (see what I did there? tongue ) when Super does it.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#77571: Feb 6th 2018 at 9:01:26 AM

The movies didn't elaborate on Vegeta getting Blue either. The only implication that Vegeta did the ritual was Vegeta saying he'd do the ritual next time at the end of Battle of Gods, with no mention of it in 'F'.

edited 6th Feb '18 9:02:51 AM by PushoverMediaCritic

GAP Formerly G.G. from Who Knows? Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: In love with love
Formerly G.G.
#77572: Feb 6th 2018 at 9:11:11 AM

Suffice to say, the movies didn't explain how Vegeta how he got SSB and SSG. Didn't Vegeta and Goku train with Whis?

"Mai waifu."
Moth13 Since: Sep, 2010
#77573: Feb 6th 2018 at 9:12:40 AM
Thumped: Wow. That was rude. Too many of this kind of thump will bring a suspension. Please keep it civil.
Sigilbreaker26 Serial Procrastinator Since: Nov, 2017
Serial Procrastinator
#77574: Feb 6th 2018 at 9:27:29 AM

[up]x4

This isn't about who trains the hardest; Vegeta does train hard but so does Piccolo, for instance, and he hasn't gotten nearly the same level of strength. Vegeta's still sitting on the giant pile of Saiyan biological advantages; the only difference is he actively ignores stated rules of the setting when it's in his way.

Originally you couldn't just train for Super Saiyan; you needed to overcome a mental block to do so, which Goku does when Freeza kills Krillin. Vegeta doesn't have to do anything like that.

edited 6th Feb '18 9:36:02 AM by Sigilbreaker26

"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"
BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#77575: Feb 6th 2018 at 10:10:16 AM

Vegeta always gets his power ups offscreen, but it's definitely egregious with God/Blue. The prior forms just needed a sufficient trigger of emotion, and you can take the Anime's word to heart if you want.

God however had a specific method to achieve and wasn't even permanent. Vegeta getting that with no stated alternative is pretty glaring.

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.

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