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slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#77451: Feb 5th 2018 at 12:48:13 PM

The Final Flash has become really fucking neutered hasn't it.

It shouldn't even be called the Final Flash cause really whats so Final about it at this point?

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Sigilbreaker26 Serial Procrastinator Since: Nov, 2017
Serial Procrastinator
#77452: Feb 5th 2018 at 12:48:42 PM

[up] Maybe it's like the Final Fantasy of ki attacks.

"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"
hardcorefakes coolest_guy from probably America Since: Oct, 2015 Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
coolest_guy
#77453: Feb 5th 2018 at 12:49:17 PM

[up]x4

Think DB Goku could tank a moon-busting blast?

edited 5th Feb '18 12:49:37 PM by hardcorefakes

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#77454: Feb 5th 2018 at 12:50:23 PM

[up][up][up][up] Why would he use the Mafuba if the Max KHH is so strong?

Also, no, you haven't countered anything the story has said or the Mummy/Devilman examples. You're just clinging to something the story never really brought up in an actual fight, which at best might just be a different kind of inconsistency.

There's also absolutely no way of scaling the characters durability to the moon busting attack anyway. You can't make assumptions based off that.

edited 5th Feb '18 12:51:33 PM by Saiga

Sigilbreaker26 Serial Procrastinator Since: Nov, 2017
Serial Procrastinator
#77455: Feb 5th 2018 at 12:50:46 PM

[up] Are you seriously ignoring that he was using the Mafuba against King Piccolo, and that something that would kill Kid Goku at the time of the 1st TB could very well not be enough to kill King Piccolo? You're just going to ignore that there is a significant gap in abilities between Goku at that point and KP?

I'm just saying that while we have no proof that Roshi's claim is consistent there's also no real strong definitive evidence that it's inconsistent either.

[up][up]VS. King Piccolo Goku likely could have tanked that blast, 23rd TB definitely.

I'd actually say a possibly as far back as after his victory over Taopaipai. It is very odd though, that 3 days of agility training is enough to not just make Goku substantially more agile than TPP, but also somehow stronger than him and tough enough that he was able to just let TPP whale on him with barely any damage.

You can see in this the seeds of the problems that would eventually consume Dragonball's power system later down the road.

edited 5th Feb '18 12:55:44 PM by Sigilbreaker26

"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#77456: Feb 5th 2018 at 12:54:05 PM

Uh, I'm not? But you just said it would kill Ten, so apparently it's still that powerful and doesn't take his life so yeah seems weird that he has an attack that can unavoidingly kill the second strongest guy around but doesn't come up. I'm not ignoring anything, you just went really inconsistent on your argument.

And yeah know we're outright told it's inconsistent. It is very clearly shown and stated that the claim is wrong, the fact that you can make things up to not even really disprove it doesn't change it

edited 5th Feb '18 12:56:22 PM by Saiga

Sigilbreaker26 Serial Procrastinator Since: Nov, 2017
Serial Procrastinator
#77457: Feb 5th 2018 at 12:57:02 PM

I didn't say it would kill Tien - though again, King Piccolo is far, far stronger than Tien - just that he wasn't trying to kill him and that it wasn't a serious fight. It should also be noted that Master Roshi gave up during that fight as well.

edited 5th Feb '18 12:57:26 PM by Sigilbreaker26

"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#77458: Feb 5th 2018 at 12:59:32 PM

Roshi was seriously trying to win. If the attack wouldn't kill him, there's no reason to bring up not wanting to kill him and there's no reason to avoid using it

Sigilbreaker26 Serial Procrastinator Since: Nov, 2017
Serial Procrastinator
#77459: Feb 5th 2018 at 1:00:09 PM

Roshi also cut out mid fight. Maybe he would have used it had he continued fighting, maybe not.

edited 5th Feb '18 1:00:36 PM by Sigilbreaker26

"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"
hardcorefakes coolest_guy from probably America Since: Oct, 2015 Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
coolest_guy
#77460: Feb 5th 2018 at 1:00:27 PM

@Saiga

If they get injured by attacks weaker than a blast that blew up the moon, isn't it safe to say they probably couldn't withstand said moon-destroying attack?

edited 5th Feb '18 1:01:00 PM by hardcorefakes

Sigilbreaker26 Serial Procrastinator Since: Nov, 2017
Serial Procrastinator
#77461: Feb 5th 2018 at 1:06:43 PM

Looked at the manga chapter again to check. Roshi decided to jump out after Tien used the Kamehameha himself, saying that it's now the era of the young. Tien even says (well, thinks in a thought bubble "He still hadn't brought out his full power."

So there you have it. He wasn't using his full power in that fight. He might still have lost. But he didn't use it.

"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"
Hobgoblin Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#77462: Feb 5th 2018 at 1:21:19 PM

Why doesn't Yamcha use Kamehameha more?

Sigilbreaker26 Serial Procrastinator Since: Nov, 2017
Serial Procrastinator
#77463: Feb 5th 2018 at 1:22:28 PM

[up] Well, mainly because he seems to prefer close combat to ki attacks.

He did develop the Spirit Ball, though.

I do notice that all the video game interpretations of his Kamehameha have it look very rough so it's entirely possible he's not that proficient with it.

edited 5th Feb '18 1:23:29 PM by Sigilbreaker26

"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"
BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#77464: Feb 5th 2018 at 1:26:34 PM

That's probably because the Kamehameha is very hard move to master. It took Roshi 50 years for it to be as powerful as it was, so it's natural Krillin and Yamcha's wouldn't be as powerful after only a few years of using it.

Goku and his sons are exempt from this because ya know....main character privilege.

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
Sigilbreaker26 Serial Procrastinator Since: Nov, 2017
Serial Procrastinator
#77465: Feb 5th 2018 at 1:28:06 PM

It's... not that hard. Goku learned it after seeing it once. Krillin just decided to do it on a whim. Tien just did it once to mock the Kame school. It may be the easiest move in the series. I think it's just that Yamcha sucks at using it or doesn't get enough practice with it.

edited 5th Feb '18 1:28:35 PM by Sigilbreaker26

"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"
BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#77466: Feb 5th 2018 at 1:44:04 PM

Once again, Goku's the main character. He's better than everybody by default...and he's a noted prodigy. I remember that Roshi called out Krillin's Kamehameha for being untrained when he used it, and Tien's didn't seem that strong, Roshi was just surprised he picked up the move so fast.

Or Yamcha just sucks as usual, that's easier.

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
Hobgoblin Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#77467: Feb 5th 2018 at 2:04:40 PM

When in doubt, bully Yamcha.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#77468: Feb 5th 2018 at 2:06:16 PM

Creating the Spirit Ball would prolly require a good amount of Ki manipulation & control.

edited 5th Feb '18 2:06:32 PM by slimcoder

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Sigilbreaker26 Serial Procrastinator Since: Nov, 2017
Serial Procrastinator
#77469: Feb 5th 2018 at 2:09:05 PM

It's definitely an impressive attack (and honestly I wouldn't mind it appearing more often).

"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"
EpicBleye drunk bunny from her bed being very eepy Since: Sep, 2014 Relationship Status: In Lesbians with you
drunk bunny
#77470: Feb 5th 2018 at 2:09:47 PM

That would require Yamcha to become a major character again, and that isn't happening

"There's not a girl alive who wouldn't be happy being called cute." ~Tamamo-no-Mae
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#77471: Feb 5th 2018 at 2:19:48 PM

Well considering Yamcha could steamroll through any threat they might face like a walk in the park that is prolly the right option. tongue

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Sigilbreaker26 Serial Procrastinator Since: Nov, 2017
Serial Procrastinator
#77472: Feb 5th 2018 at 2:35:21 PM

Well maybe Vegeta could steal it like he stole Bulma? tongue

edited 5th Feb '18 2:35:41 PM by Sigilbreaker26

"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"
BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#77473: Feb 5th 2018 at 3:09:52 PM

wow, how uncalled for.

Keep it up.

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
Hobgoblin Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
GAP Formerly G.G. from Who Knows? Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: In love with love
Formerly G.G.
#77475: Feb 5th 2018 at 4:44:11 PM

Yamcha is Toriyama's whipping boy, he will never be allowed to be awesome no matter how hard he tires. I wonder why Toriyama reuses that joke a lot? Yamcha is more of a Trix Rabbit who keeps trying to get the cereal or Charlie Brown trying to kick that football.

"Mai waifu."

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