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Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#77401: Feb 5th 2018 at 7:20:00 AM

There's also that official sources have put the number of planets under his control in the 40s or maybe 400s.

Space is pretty unpopulated I guess?

if he's the emperor of the entire goddamn universe.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Ikedatakeshi Baby dango from singapore Since: Nov, 2015 Relationship Status: Singularity
Baby dango
#77402: Feb 5th 2018 at 7:22:20 AM

The official number is 28. In the entire universe, there is only 28 with sentient life.

edited 5th Feb '18 7:22:46 AM by Ikedatakeshi

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#77403: Feb 5th 2018 at 7:32:26 AM

[up]

I assuming Frieza himself has had something to do with that.

He's likely wiped out a large number of species.

I'm kind of confused about Freeza being emperor of space. I mean, he's like vice emperor at best because his dad. But also. His whole MO just doesn't make sense. He's based on real estate sharks and what we see his army doing is genociding populations so the planets can be resold. That's what Goku was supposedly supposed to do, give or take some retcons. That was what Raditz showed up to make him do. That's what Vegeta and Nappa were doing before they heard about the dragon balls. But if he's already the strongest mortal in the whole of space THE ENTIRE SPACE why does Freeza need to sell planets? What does money mean to him? His entire setup becomes unnecessary complexity. Who is he selling to? And whyyyy?

Though someone gave an explanation for it I can buy (because Frieza is lazy considering he's powerful enough to basically do the job himself), I agree with this.

One Strip! One Strip!
Hobgoblin Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#77404: Feb 5th 2018 at 7:35:26 AM

It's kind of a shame that the final battle on Namek didn't involve Frieza screaming at Goku for making him blow up prime real estate.

GAP Formerly G.G. from Who Knows? Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: In love with love
Formerly G.G.
#77405: Feb 5th 2018 at 7:39:05 AM

That is a shame. Not to mention with his death, the morale of his "employees" might had gone down the drain along with his profits.

edited 5th Feb '18 7:40:56 AM by GAP

"Mai waifu."
BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#77406: Feb 5th 2018 at 7:39:31 AM

To be fair, you to have a pretty high IQ to understand Vegeta's character...

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#77407: Feb 5th 2018 at 7:40:05 AM

[up] Wait really?

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#77408: Feb 5th 2018 at 7:41:57 AM

[up]It's a Rick and Morty thing (I assume).

GAP Formerly G.G. from Who Knows? Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: In love with love
Formerly G.G.
#77409: Feb 5th 2018 at 7:42:28 AM

To be fair, you to need to read the manga to understand Vegeta's character..

Fixed. [tup]

"Mai waifu."
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#77410: Feb 5th 2018 at 7:52:20 AM

The official number is 28. In the entire universe, there is only 28 with sentient life.

=|

As above, so below, I guess. Earth is 90% empty wasteland so why shouldn't the universe follow suit.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
GarnetRebeller96 Since: Nov, 2015
#77411: Feb 5th 2018 at 8:00:34 AM

@LSBK Because Dragon Ball has always been about characters doing things that make sense.

I think your expectations are misplaced. If a person likes that that Super give Vegeta more wins, as doing things with him, then that's simply their reason.

Simple reasons aren't bad, ya know.

edited 5th Feb '18 8:04:12 AM by GarnetRebeller96

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#77412: Feb 5th 2018 at 8:07:40 AM

No, I think my expectations are pretty fine. I never had any delusions about Dragon Ball being perfect, that doesn't mean I want it to get worse. I never understand why people go "Things weren't totally perfect before, so it doesn't matter if they get shittier."

Super is trying even less than Toriyama originally did.

edited 5th Feb '18 8:08:16 AM by LSBK

GarnetRebeller96 Since: Nov, 2015
#77413: Feb 5th 2018 at 8:18:08 AM

All of what you said is pretty subjective as far as I'm concern.

LordVatek Not really a lord of anything Since: Sep, 2014
Not really a lord of anything
#77414: Feb 5th 2018 at 8:19:51 AM

The official number is 28. In the entire universe, there is only 28 with sentient life.

For all of Super's faults, this is the most stupid one in my opinion.

This song needs more love.
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#77415: Feb 5th 2018 at 8:21:16 AM

[up][up]Enjoyment is subjective, whether Super contradicts itself more than Dragon Ball really isn't though. That's the kind of thing where examples can be provided (and often are).

edited 5th Feb '18 8:21:44 AM by LSBK

Sigilbreaker26 Serial Procrastinator Since: Nov, 2017
Serial Procrastinator
#77416: Feb 5th 2018 at 8:24:06 AM

Well, Dragonball Z has the advantage of having decades of fan wank to paper over the inconsistencies.

"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"
GarnetRebeller96 Since: Nov, 2015
#77417: Feb 5th 2018 at 8:25:39 AM

Said contradicts which consist off a high amount nitpicks.

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#77418: Feb 5th 2018 at 8:26:30 AM

[up][up]I mean, not really. Fan Wank is more often about trying to explain away things from the series people don't like (like how Tien is seriously for real stronger than Krillin) than about fixing inconsistencies.

And even that should be necessary because if Super is to be a continuous it shouldn't have to make up it's own rules only to ignore them like two seconds later.

[up]How is "Goku gets manhandled by Kale in Blue, but can later on take on a stronger Kale and Caulifla together while only in God" a nitpick? Things are just flat out more likely to not make sense in Super. If you don't personally care about that, it's your prerogative, but it doesn't mean other people are wrong for doing so.

edited 5th Feb '18 8:28:03 AM by LSBK

GarnetRebeller96 Since: Nov, 2015
#77419: Feb 5th 2018 at 8:32:39 AM

Goku didn't seem scratch when he was getting manhandled. And I forgot to say most of them consist of nitpicking.

Seriously, if people will go off the rail about Jiren calling toppo pathetic and call it ooc, you know some of these issues of Super will consists of nitpicking,

Sigilbreaker26 Serial Procrastinator Since: Nov, 2017
Serial Procrastinator
#77420: Feb 5th 2018 at 8:32:55 AM

[up][up]I mean, do you want a list of problems with Z?

-Vegeta learns ki sensing despite having absolutely no idea how it should work -Zenkai boosts are massively, massively inconsistent. Vegeta also at one point tells Krillin that self-inflicted injuries don't count even though both Goku and Cell prove otherwise. -Super Saiyan at first required a huge degree of training and an insane emotional trigger, then it just required a huge degree of training, and finally you just got it. In addition, despite Goku going berserk when he first got it in every other instance we see it it induces no real emotional state -Cell comes back to life after self destructing

These are just the inconsistencies. There are also a lot of moments where an explanation is given, but the explanation makes no sense whatsoever.

That being said... all these problems are dialed up to 11 in Super. There are just too many examples to count. But honestly if people had ten years they could probably develop fan wank theories to explain away all of that as well.

[up] Jiren calling Toppo isn't so much OOC (since anime Jiren has given us no personality to work with) so much as just making him look really petty and pathetic.

edited 5th Feb '18 8:36:57 AM by Sigilbreaker26

"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#77421: Feb 5th 2018 at 8:35:13 AM

I don't know why you're talking as if I said Dragon Ball didn't have problems. That's exactly what I'm talking about, I do not understand why people think saying "This other thing had (a lot of) problems, means you shouldn't be upset about problems in this." You can have issues with both, that doesn't mean one can't be much worse about it than the other.

Even if I took all of your inconsistences at face value (I don't) saying they exist doesn't somehow make Super better or mean people are wrong for having complaints about it. In fact:

-Vegeta learns ki sensing despite having absolutely no idea how it should work -Zenkai boosts are massively, massively inconsistent. Vegeta also at one point tells Krillin that self-inflicted injuries don't count even though both Goku and Cell prove otherwise. -Super Saiyan at first required a huge degree of training and an insane emotional trigger, then it just required a huge degree of training, and finally you just got it. In addition, despite Goku going berserk when he first got it in every other instance we see it it induces no real emotional state -Cell comes back to life after self destructing

  • I'm not really sure what Vegeta learning ki-sensing is supposed to be inconsistent with. It was just a thing Goku could do after drinking the ultra divine water, and it's never portrayed as hard to do.

  • The Zenkais are only an issue if you assume that ever one should give an equal amount of power for some reason. You could argue that the jumps are arbitrary, but I see no reason why them not all being the same is an issue, especially considering their purpose.

  • We've been over the Super Saiyan thing before, that's not the story being inconsistent, that's just you not liking how the story ultimately portrays it.

  • Cell's regeneration and issue, but not just because he self-destructed. The explanation was that his nucleus in his head happened to survive the blast, lucky, but not impossible. The real issue is him regenerating after Goku blow off his top half, even though the aforementioned nucleus, should have been destroyed when that happened.

edited 5th Feb '18 8:42:47 AM by LSBK

TyeDyeWildebeest Unreasonably Quirky from Big Rock Candy Mountain Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: How does it feel to treat me like you do?
Unreasonably Quirky
#77422: Feb 5th 2018 at 8:36:54 AM

[up][up] I love how the Abridged Series just totally glossed over that first part.

Vegeta: While I was on Earth, I learned a new trick; I can sense energy.

Dodoria: How the hell'd you do that?

Vegeta: I'unno.

edited 5th Feb '18 8:37:06 AM by TyeDyeWildebeest

No beer?! But if there's no beer, then there's no beef or beans!
Sigilbreaker26 Serial Procrastinator Since: Nov, 2017
Serial Procrastinator
#77423: Feb 5th 2018 at 8:37:44 AM

[up][up] I'm not saying Super is better than Z, definitely. Just saying that in terms of inconsistencies people often give Z a pass for ridiculous stuff as well.

"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"
BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#77424: Feb 5th 2018 at 8:42:45 AM

Z is over 30 years old is probably why. Super is what's current and therefore what we're focused on.

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#77425: Feb 5th 2018 at 8:44:20 AM

And it's not like we don't talk about Z's flaws a bunch anyway. Saying "Z/OG Dragon Ball" is better than Super isn't anywhere near the same thing as saying they're flawless or don't have complaints about them.

I don't know what that fallacy is called, but it crops up so much and it's annoying.


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