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LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#77051: Feb 3rd 2018 at 7:58:50 PM

...because I openly like this show, and there's nothing wrong with that?

There's nothing wrong with it, sure, but literally almost everything you say in regard to it is "there's absolutely nothing wrong with any of it, why do you guys complain?"

[up]I mean, that is "being negative" but negativity can be justified, as we all constantly do. I don't think anyone hear who voices complaints about Super ever doesn't try and justify what they're saying, and why it's an issue for them.

edited 3rd Feb '18 8:04:18 PM by LSBK

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#77052: Feb 3rd 2018 at 8:01:24 PM

Didn't say that at all. I just stated that I liked the episode and that I don't understand some of your criticisms. I then went on to provide specific arguments against each criticism I saw, none of which have been refuted.

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#77053: Feb 3rd 2018 at 8:02:35 PM

No I agree, there's nothing less predictable about your posts than mine.

Specifically, "I don't know what you're talking about" is the predictable part because it feels like the first response you have to any criticism.

edited 3rd Feb '18 8:03:24 PM by Saiga

TheMageofFire Since: May, 2012
#77054: Feb 3rd 2018 at 8:04:04 PM

You two just need to get a room already, gawd DAMN.

CountofBleck Starting to believe in himself from New Wirral (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#77056: Feb 3rd 2018 at 8:06:33 PM

I'd say we've become a little bitter. Super's quality is questionable, so outside of a few choice moments, it's hard not to be.

That being said...I'm not as down on V Egeta's comeback as the rest of you, because I don't care about how.

Vegeta spent years of his life sacrificing his pride while working under Frieza. He hated that, so of course he'd shit on someone who did the same thing. Hell, remember his big speech when he went full Majin. Pride is the most important thing to him...or rather, I feel as it's as important to him as his family.

When you are the leader of a group called the Pride Troopers, throwing away said pride is something to be ashamed of, even if you had damned good reasons for doing it.

That's the generous way to look at it. I agree that The Power of Friendship has no place in Dragonball, but I'm not gonna say it's like Fairy Tail.

I mean, do any of you have any idea HOW MANY times Fairy Tail pulled that bullshit? Super needs a few hundred more examples before they even come close.

As for Jiren....he's just a dick, but seeing him smile was something new out of him. Shame it's not much of an improvement.

So, in the battle of GT vs Super, I declare the winner...the original Dragonball.tongue

One Strip! One Strip!
Tomodachi Now a lurker. See you at the forums. Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Now a lurker. See you at the forums.
#77057: Feb 3rd 2018 at 8:08:38 PM

Well, the original Dragon Ball was already the best part, so this isn't breaking any ground.

[up] While I'm still critical of the episode, the conflict between Vegeta and Toppo was interesting for me. In the battle of second fiddles, Vegeta won. I'm surprised Jiren hasn't praised Vegeta as some sort of worthy rival, considering they both agree Toppo screwed it up with the ideals thing.

edited 3rd Feb '18 8:10:50 PM by Tomodachi

To win, you need to adapt, and to adapt, you need to be able to laugh away all the restraints. Everything holding you back.
LordVatek Not really a lord of anything Since: Sep, 2014
Not really a lord of anything
#77058: Feb 3rd 2018 at 8:09:06 PM

The Power of Friendship has no place in Dragon Ball

You do remember what caused the original Super Saiyan transformation, right?

This song needs more love.
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#77059: Feb 3rd 2018 at 8:09:45 PM

You do remember what caused the original Super Saiyan transformation, right?

Hatred.

edited 3rd Feb '18 8:10:11 PM by Saiga

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#77060: Feb 3rd 2018 at 8:10:27 PM

I thought it was rage but yeah hatred also works.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Sigilbreaker26 Serial Procrastinator Since: Nov, 2017
Serial Procrastinator
#77061: Feb 3rd 2018 at 8:10:46 PM

...Anger, desperation, and being backed into a corner with no other way out.

Oh, and to top all of that off Goku thought Krillin was dead for good this time, since it looked like Piccolo was dead as well. So that meant all those people... basically every friend he's ever had... died for absolutely nothing and this alien emperor twat is laughing at him....

and he just couldn't TAKE ANY MORE

edited 3rd Feb '18 8:12:21 PM by Sigilbreaker26

"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#77062: Feb 3rd 2018 at 8:11:06 PM

[up]X5

...why did you show that video? It's burned into my memory now.

Honestly, as long as they keep trying to keep Goku in the hero spot, sequels to DB are a bad idea.

edited 3rd Feb '18 8:11:37 PM by HandsomeRob

One Strip! One Strip!
LordVatek Not really a lord of anything Since: Sep, 2014
Not really a lord of anything
#77063: Feb 3rd 2018 at 8:12:09 PM

Hatred over his best friend dying.

It's not a traditional example certainly, but I'd say it's a variation.

This song needs more love.
TyeDyeWildebeest Unreasonably Quirky from Big Rock Candy Mountain Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: How does it feel to treat me like you do?
Unreasonably Quirky
#77064: Feb 3rd 2018 at 8:12:22 PM

You do remember what caused the original Super Saiyan transformation, right?

Push-ups, sit-ups and plenty of juice?

No beer?! But if there's no beer, then there's no beef or beans!
Tomodachi Now a lurker. See you at the forums. Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Now a lurker. See you at the forums.
#77065: Feb 3rd 2018 at 8:12:41 PM

[up][up][up]That's what ruined the Buu saga.

That's what ruined GT.

That's what ruined The Future Trunks saga (Manga)

That's what ruined Gohan.

There is a point where Goku stops being charming and starts being annoying.

edited 3rd Feb '18 8:13:13 PM by Tomodachi

To win, you need to adapt, and to adapt, you need to be able to laugh away all the restraints. Everything holding you back.
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#77066: Feb 3rd 2018 at 8:13:02 PM

[up][up][up] True.

Its just the manly power of friendship.

Fairy Tail is more nambi pambi in comparison.

[up] You make good points my friend.

edited 3rd Feb '18 8:13:42 PM by slimcoder

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Sigilbreaker26 Serial Procrastinator Since: Nov, 2017
Serial Procrastinator
#77067: Feb 3rd 2018 at 8:13:36 PM

[up][up] What ruined those things?

Oh, right.

What ruined the Buu saga was it just dragging on and on and ruining a lot of the good stuff in it.

edited 3rd Feb '18 8:14:22 PM by Sigilbreaker26

"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#77068: Feb 3rd 2018 at 8:13:47 PM

[up]

Unfortunately, Toriyama (and possibly Toei as well) seem to be unable to recognize that.

One Strip! One Strip!
BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#77069: Feb 3rd 2018 at 8:14:01 PM

Super Saiyan was mainly hatred. Yes, his bff dying was the catalyst, but Goku would have achieved if he was sufficiently pissed off enough.

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
Tomodachi Now a lurker. See you at the forums. Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Now a lurker. See you at the forums.
#77070: Feb 3rd 2018 at 8:14:22 PM

[up][up] Too much protagonism on Goku, who is an Static Character that doesn't change at all. Because he returned, Gohan didn't get the protagonism role. Because of him, Vegeta didn't get his revenge against Frieza. Because of him, Trunks didn't get the kill against manga Zamasu. Because of him, no one did anything in GT except for Uub one time.

Even if it was contrived, Vegeta dilema with Toppo made the power up compelling in my eyes (Not to say the episode was great, mind you)

edited 3rd Feb '18 8:16:47 PM by Tomodachi

To win, you need to adapt, and to adapt, you need to be able to laugh away all the restraints. Everything holding you back.
LordVatek Not really a lord of anything Since: Sep, 2014
Not really a lord of anything
#77071: Feb 3rd 2018 at 8:15:50 PM

Fairy Tail is more nambi pambi in comparison.

And that's... bad?

<- Has never seen Fairy Tail.

This song needs more love.
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#77072: Feb 3rd 2018 at 8:16:01 PM

I would have liked Vegeta's comeback if it was more visually spectacular.

Like when that big energy blast hit him the instant shift was just lame.

[up] When I say "nambi pambi" I mean its like really wimpy & so yes its bad.

Also Fairy Tail really went to shit in the end. In ways worse than Naruto & Bleach though nothing as offensive as Sasuke/Sakura I think.

edited 3rd Feb '18 8:17:41 PM by slimcoder

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#77073: Feb 3rd 2018 at 8:16:51 PM

In fact, I have said REPEATEDLY that I DO have criticisms of Super, mostly in defense of you people turning me into a strawman who thinks this show is GODDAMN PERFECT, APPARENTLY. HERE'S SOME CRITICISMS OF THE MOST RECENT EPISODE: the extension of 17 and Freeza's fight felt unnecessary and repetitive, and cut into time that I feel would've worked better dedicated to Vegeta and Toppo's fight. Jiren should've had a line last episode where it indicated that he didn't approve of Toppo throwing away Justice, if that was where they were going with it.

THERE, I HAVE CRITICISMS. IS THIS WHAT YOU WANT?! You want me to admit for the umpteenth time that this show isn't perfect?! It's not hard for me, because I DON'T THINK IT IS. I HAVE NEVER THOUGHT THIS SHOW IS PERFECT OR FLAWLESS. STOP SAYING THAT I DO.

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#77074: Feb 3rd 2018 at 8:17:33 PM

Hatred over his best friend dying.

It's not a traditional example certainly, but I'd say it's a variation.

It's not even remotely close. Super Saiyan is a tangible result, that was built up in advance. Just powering up over the power of friendship is... nothing. It can work in a series that runs off it, but Dragon Ball isn't and never has been. You don't just get stronger on the power of friendship. Goku getting stronger over getting mad at Kuririn is a lot different to Goku getting stronger by becoming a Super Saiyan, which he triggered by getting made over Kuririn.

It's the same with Gohan - he doesn't get powerful from getting angry because that's what happens when you get angry, he gets powerful from getting angry because it releases the dormant power within him as a unique feature to him.

[up][up][up][up] I think Vegeta being able to kill Freeza on his return is the only way that movie could be worse. Vegeta doesn't deserve that, because Vegeta was an asshole when he was a victim of Freeza. By this time, he should be well beyond that, and he shouldn't 'get' revenge.

[up] No-one said that, please refrain from strawmanning us.

edited 3rd Feb '18 8:19:16 PM by Saiga

Tomodachi Now a lurker. See you at the forums. Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Now a lurker. See you at the forums.
#77075: Feb 3rd 2018 at 8:19:31 PM

[up][up] Dude, calm down, we are chill in here.

[up] I disagree.

Gohan turning Super Saiyan 2 over a guy he never talked with is still annoying for me.

edited 3rd Feb '18 8:20:41 PM by Tomodachi

To win, you need to adapt, and to adapt, you need to be able to laugh away all the restraints. Everything holding you back.

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