I'd say we've become a little bitter. Super's quality is questionable, so outside of a few choice moments, it's hard not to be.
That being said...I'm not as down on V Egeta's comeback as the rest of you, because I don't care about how.
Vegeta spent years of his life sacrificing his pride while working under Frieza. He hated that, so of course he'd shit on someone who did the same thing. Hell, remember his big speech when he went full Majin. Pride is the most important thing to him...or rather, I feel as it's as important to him as his family.
When you are the leader of a group called the Pride Troopers, throwing away said pride is something to be ashamed of, even if you had damned good reasons for doing it.
That's the generous way to look at it. I agree that The Power of Friendship has no place in Dragonball, but I'm not gonna say it's like Fairy Tail.
I mean, do any of you have any idea HOW MANY times Fairy Tail pulled that bullshit? Super needs a few hundred more examples before they even come close.
As for Jiren....he's just a dick, but seeing him smile was something new out of him. Shame it's not much of an improvement.
So, in the battle of GT vs Super, I declare the winner...the original Dragonball.
Well, the original Dragon Ball was already the best part, so this isn't breaking any ground.
While I'm still critical of the episode, the conflict between Vegeta and Toppo was interesting for me. In the battle of second fiddles, Vegeta won. I'm surprised Jiren hasn't praised Vegeta as some sort of worthy rival, considering they both agree Toppo screwed it up with the ideals thing.
edited 3rd Feb '18 8:10:50 PM by Tomodachi
To win, you need to adapt, and to adapt, you need to be able to laugh away all the restraints. Everything holding you back.You do remember what caused the original Super Saiyan transformation, right?
This song needs more love....Anger, desperation, and being backed into a corner with no other way out.
Oh, and to top all of that off Goku thought Krillin was dead for good this time, since it looked like Piccolo was dead as well. So that meant all those people... basically every friend he's ever had... died for absolutely nothing and this alien emperor twat is laughing at him....
and he just couldn't TAKE ANY MORE
edited 3rd Feb '18 8:12:21 PM by Sigilbreaker26
"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"
X5
...why did you show that video? It's burned into my memory now.
Honestly, as long as they keep trying to keep Goku in the hero spot, sequels to DB are a bad idea.
edited 3rd Feb '18 8:11:37 PM by HandsomeRob
One Strip! One Strip!Hatred over his best friend dying.
It's not a traditional example certainly, but I'd say it's a variation.
This song needs more love.Push-ups, sit-ups and plenty of juice?
No beer?! But if there's no beer, then there's no beef or beans!![]()
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That's what ruined the Buu saga.
That's what ruined GT.
That's what ruined The Future Trunks saga (Manga)
That's what ruined Gohan.
There is a point where Goku stops being charming and starts being annoying.
edited 3rd Feb '18 8:13:13 PM by Tomodachi
To win, you need to adapt, and to adapt, you need to be able to laugh away all the restraints. Everything holding you back.
Unfortunately, Toriyama (and possibly Toei as well) seem to be unable to recognize that.
One Strip! One Strip!![]()
Too much protagonism on Goku, who is an Static Character that doesn't change at all. Because he returned, Gohan didn't get the protagonism role. Because of him, Vegeta didn't get his revenge against Frieza. Because of him, Trunks didn't get the kill against manga Zamasu. Because of him, no one did anything in GT except for Uub one time.
Even if it was contrived, Vegeta dilema with Toppo made the power up compelling in my eyes (Not to say the episode was great, mind you)
edited 3rd Feb '18 8:16:47 PM by Tomodachi
To win, you need to adapt, and to adapt, you need to be able to laugh away all the restraints. Everything holding you back.And that's... bad?
<- Has never seen Fairy Tail.
This song needs more love.I would have liked Vegeta's comeback if it was more visually spectacular.
Like when that big energy blast hit him the instant shift was just lame.
When I say "nambi pambi" I mean its like really wimpy & so yes its bad.
Also Fairy Tail really went to shit in the end. In ways worse than Naruto & Bleach though nothing as offensive as Sasuke/Sakura I think.
edited 3rd Feb '18 8:17:41 PM by slimcoder
"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."In fact, I have said REPEATEDLY that I DO have criticisms of Super, mostly in defense of you people turning me into a strawman who thinks this show is GODDAMN PERFECT, APPARENTLY. HERE'S SOME CRITICISMS OF THE MOST RECENT EPISODE: the extension of 17 and Freeza's fight felt unnecessary and repetitive, and cut into time that I feel would've worked better dedicated to Vegeta and Toppo's fight. Jiren should've had a line last episode where it indicated that he didn't approve of Toppo throwing away Justice, if that was where they were going with it.
THERE, I HAVE CRITICISMS. IS THIS WHAT YOU WANT?! You want me to admit for the umpteenth time that this show isn't perfect?! It's not hard for me, because I DON'T THINK IT IS. I HAVE NEVER THOUGHT THIS SHOW IS PERFECT OR FLAWLESS. STOP SAYING THAT I DO.
It's not a traditional example certainly, but I'd say it's a variation.
It's not even remotely close. Super Saiyan is a tangible result, that was built up in advance. Just powering up over the power of friendship is... nothing. It can work in a series that runs off it, but Dragon Ball isn't and never has been. You don't just get stronger on the power of friendship. Goku getting stronger over getting mad at Kuririn is a lot different to Goku getting stronger by becoming a Super Saiyan, which he triggered by getting made over Kuririn.
It's the same with Gohan - he doesn't get powerful from getting angry because that's what happens when you get angry, he gets powerful from getting angry because it releases the dormant power within him as a unique feature to him.
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I think Vegeta being able to kill Freeza on his return is the only way that movie could be worse. Vegeta doesn't deserve that, because Vegeta was an asshole when he was a victim of Freeza. By this time, he should be well beyond that, and he shouldn't 'get' revenge.
No-one said that, please refrain from strawmanning us.
edited 3rd Feb '18 8:19:16 PM by Saiga
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Dude, calm down, we are chill in here.
I disagree.
Gohan turning Super Saiyan 2 over a guy he never talked with is still annoying for me.
edited 3rd Feb '18 8:20:41 PM by Tomodachi
To win, you need to adapt, and to adapt, you need to be able to laugh away all the restraints. Everything holding you back.

There's nothing wrong with it, sure, but literally almost everything you say in regard to it is "there's absolutely nothing wrong with any of it, why do you guys complain?"
edited 3rd Feb '18 8:04:18 PM by LSBK