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Awesomekid42 (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: It was only a kiss
#77001: Feb 3rd 2018 at 6:59:23 PM

...You know, Sigil's right. This Vegeta thing has been in the series since long before Super.

Soble Since: Dec, 2013
#77002: Feb 3rd 2018 at 7:00:45 PM

I think I, or someone else said something to that effect the last time this came up and it was stated that Gohan's power-ups aren't anymore egregious, or "cheaper," than anyone else's.

I'M MR. MEESEEKS, LOOK AT ME!
Sigilbreaker26 Serial Procrastinator Since: Nov, 2017
Serial Procrastinator
#77003: Feb 3rd 2018 at 7:00:56 PM

Also, ironically, Vegeta has done the exact same thing Toppo did - "cheated" for power - except Vegeta literally had to make a deal with the devil and personally forced himself over the moral event horizon in the process. Toppo has not.

[up] Gohan has spent a fraction of time training compared to anyone else. I think Android 17 might have spent more time training than him if you look lifetime. He's spent about what, 5-6 years total training? The rest of it is inborn potential and two seperate true potential unlocks.

For as much shit as we give people like the Saiyans for having good genes and therefore a leg up, Goku and Vegeta basically do nothing but train.

edited 3rd Feb '18 7:03:29 PM by Sigilbreaker26

"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"
NieOrginalny Rapidly changing picture from Very Far Away Since: May, 2016 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
Rapidly changing picture
#77004: Feb 3rd 2018 at 7:02:54 PM

Jiren seems to have a skewed sense of justice. Turns out he really was Ribrianne's counterpart.

I am procastrinating, but not excessively I think.
Ikedatakeshi Baby dango from singapore Since: Nov, 2015 Relationship Status: Singularity
Baby dango
#77005: Feb 3rd 2018 at 7:03:18 PM

Let me make things clear, I don't think this is the worst episode ever in terms of writing. It just hit every sore spots that I've with Super at the same time.

[up] Giant Jiren when?

edited 3rd Feb '18 7:03:51 PM by Ikedatakeshi

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#77006: Feb 3rd 2018 at 7:03:35 PM

You know, at this point I wanna see 17 take the tournament and get his boat. He's somehow lasted all the way to the final battle against Jiren. Might as well see things through.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
CountofBleck Starting to believe in himself from New Wirral (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Starting to believe in himself
#77007: Feb 3rd 2018 at 7:08:03 PM

Seeing as Freiza is Mia im thinking that jiren takes out 17 & Vegeta, Goku and jiran ko each other, than froeza comes in and laughs among the rubble, winning the tournament by doing mostly gloating and fucking around.

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#77008: Feb 3rd 2018 at 7:08:36 PM

Tournament of Power: Frieza Wins By Doing Absolutely Nothing

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#77009: Feb 3rd 2018 at 7:11:50 PM

Honestly the thing I disliked the most is Vegeta surviving his self-destruction attack.

Once again talk about butchering a classic moment.

At least he lost his shirt though.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Sigilbreaker26 Serial Procrastinator Since: Nov, 2017
Serial Procrastinator
#77010: Feb 3rd 2018 at 7:14:36 PM

In fairness, Vegeta coming back from that first moment in the Buu saga at all butchered it. Can't blame Super for that.

"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"
Deadpoolrocks Since: Sep, 2010
#77011: Feb 3rd 2018 at 7:17:08 PM

so ssbluer kaio ken X 20 ultra instinct vegito when?

Ikedatakeshi Baby dango from singapore Since: Nov, 2015 Relationship Status: Singularity
Baby dango
#77012: Feb 3rd 2018 at 7:17:25 PM

Considering Vegeta is as powerful as x20 Kaioken, I would have been more happy with an actual entertaining battle with both sides roughly equal and not just getting a powerup from nowhere after getting beaten to deliver your own curbstomp. Would it kill for a fight to where both fighters retain their dignity? Even Beyblade did this right.

srebak Since: Feb, 2011
#77013: Feb 3rd 2018 at 7:18:08 PM

1. I am starting to feel both concerned and confused about this topic; is Goku still the strongest of the Z-Fighter cast or has someone else already surpassed him at this point? I ask because for me personally Vegeta being stronger than him just doesn’t feel right honestly. I mean hasn’t Goku always fought for the people that he loves in the past?

2. As strange as this is for one to take notice of this type of thing, I still can’t help but feel that it is a teeny weeny bit strange that Goku has yet to be seen completely shirtless, save only for one seen where he was in a healing pod, while Vegeta has now been seen like that at least twice as of this episode.

NieOrginalny Rapidly changing picture from Very Far Away Since: May, 2016 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
Rapidly changing picture
#77014: Feb 3rd 2018 at 7:20:54 PM

Goku was shirtless for most of his fight as a super saiyan against Freeza, which was way more than Vegeta ever got.

I am procastrinating, but not excessively I think.
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#77015: Feb 3rd 2018 at 7:22:59 PM

This episode was goddamn fantastic, I dunno what you're talking about. First off, 17 and Freeza don't do any better against God Toppo than in last episode, he still overwhelmed everything they tried with little to no effort. At most, they managed to stall for time a little. Vegeta putting up a (losing) fight at first against Toppo makes sense... if you're willing to accept that the level between Vegeta's new form/Goku's KKx20 and the Hakaishin is narrower than previously thought, which is what I speculated a little while ago.

Vegeta powering up isn't just "friendship power-up bullshit" out of nowhere. It's a rage boost, something that has been in Dragon Ball since early on and Vegeta has utilized twice before in Super: once to surpass SS3 Goku and push Beerus, and once to get huge returns on his training to beat Black. In the latter example, Black even realized that anger is what fuels Saiyans, and he got stronger by tapping into his own anger, confirming his theory.

His rage boost isn't even insubstantial. Throughout this episode, through both Vegeta and Jiren, it's made clear that we are supposed to see Toppo throwing away his code of justice as a bad thing (something I felt an inkling of last episode). Vegeta, in the last few episodes, has been all about not throwing away who he is in his search for more power, and that came to a head here.

Vegeta surviving the Final Explosion this time around isn't a problem, either, since they clearly explain how he was able to do so. Simply put, he's stronger than he used to be, being at Blue and beyond made his body durable enough to survive the attack.

Finally, Toppo wasn't wasted. His transformation sent the tournament into its final stage, broke the arena, and he proceeded to utterly wreck everyone remaining in U7 aside from Goku. He also served to motivate Vegeta to power up and gave us some incredibly badass fights. We already knew Jiren was above the level of God of Destruction altogether, Toppo still being the second fiddle shouldn't be a surprise. Yeah, he didn't eliminate anyone. Neither did Kafla, and she wasn't a waste. He also got about as much screentime in his God form as she did in Super Saiyan, almost two episodes worth. More than most of the other best fighters for the other universes got, and he was only the second fiddle.

Lionheart0 Since: Oct, 2009 Relationship Status: I'm just a hunk-a, hunk-a burnin' love
#77016: Feb 3rd 2018 at 7:23:47 PM

Why Jiren gotta drop the ether on Toppo like that?

BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#77017: Feb 3rd 2018 at 7:24:34 PM

This episode was goddamn fantastic, I dunno what you're talking about

Has it not occurred to you that our opinions tend to clash about this stuff.

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
NieOrginalny Rapidly changing picture from Very Far Away Since: May, 2016 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
Rapidly changing picture
#77018: Feb 3rd 2018 at 7:25:30 PM

Vegeta turned around the fight so fast I even forgot Toppo was beating him up at all. And yes, 17 and Freeza still stood no chance against Toppo, but going from him effortlessly erasing everything coming at him to having rocks dropped on him is just jarring.

I am procastrinating, but not excessively I think.
Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#77019: Feb 3rd 2018 at 7:25:51 PM

So imagine Frieza wins the tournament, and uses his wish on the Super Dragon Balls to replace Zen-o as supreme god of all creation, and everybody- mortal and deity alike -are horrified at the dystopian future awaiting them...

...and then Frieza just casually restores the destroyed universes and lets everybody get back to their lives. With all his ambitions fulfilled, all his grudges meaningless, and no possible resistance to mount against his power, he sees little reason to be a feared dictator, so he just kinda becomes a chill laissez-faire god and everybody lives happily ever after. Aside from Christmas being forcibly renamed Frieza Day.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
Deadpoolrocks Since: Sep, 2010
#77020: Feb 3rd 2018 at 7:26:29 PM

[up][up][up][up]because pride troopers shoild not throw away their pride and if they do they should at least win.

But honestly i dont mind the line because hey at least its some kind of characterization for jiren

edited 3rd Feb '18 7:26:55 PM by Deadpoolrocks

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#77021: Feb 3rd 2018 at 7:26:40 PM

This episode was goddamn fantastic, I dunno what you're talking about.

How did I know you were going to same something exactly like this...

Sigilbreaker26 Serial Procrastinator Since: Nov, 2017
Serial Procrastinator
#77022: Feb 3rd 2018 at 7:27:24 PM

1. I am starting to feel both concerned and confused about this topic; is Goku still the strongest of the Z-Fighter cast or has someone else already surpassed him at this point? I ask because for me personally Vegeta being stronger than him just doesn’t feel right honestly. I mean hasn’t Goku always fought for the people that he loves in the past?

Goku's still the top dog. Vegeta's gotten some good licks in but nothing that can compare to Ultra Instinct quite frankly.

As for Goku's motivations, he has fought for the people he loved (or to avenge them). Not all the time, but... some of the time.

"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#77023: Feb 3rd 2018 at 7:27:43 PM

I just feel bad about Toppo.

Like the man gave up everything for his universe & Vegeta & even his fucking "friend" just shit on him.

Seriously why would Jiren praise Vegeta? He doesn't even know him or his personal motives. All he is to him is just some arrogant prick so why is he better than his own damn friend?

[up][up][up][up][up] Heh that be hilarious. tongue

edited 3rd Feb '18 7:28:31 PM by slimcoder

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
CountofBleck Starting to believe in himself from New Wirral (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Starting to believe in himself
#77024: Feb 3rd 2018 at 7:28:07 PM

That's literally the ending of Powerpuff Girls

Deadpoolrocks Since: Sep, 2010
#77025: Feb 3rd 2018 at 7:29:21 PM

[up][up]because the arrogant prick won without giving up his pride. Honestly jirens an ass but its better than nothing at all

edited 3rd Feb '18 7:29:44 PM by Deadpoolrocks


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