TVTropes Now available in the app store!
Open

Follow TV Tropes

Following

Dragon Ball

Go To

JDTcreates J.D.T.creates from New York City Since: Aug, 2011
J.D.T.creates
#7601: Jul 30th 2014 at 9:03:00 PM

Have you seen how much they eat though? If Mars needs moms, then Vegeta (planet, king and prince)grinneeds chefs. Its just unfortunate that Goku's mother became one due to not being cut out for the Saiyan pastime.

  • I missed my chance to reply when the thread was one the topic but I might not be as miffed about it as much as the regulars when reading their reasons.

All of space and time, everything that ever was and could have been... and there's still nothing on tv
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#7602: Jul 31st 2014 at 3:40:49 AM

[up][up] So would I but I still prefer Gine to Hanasia because there's more to each character to that and everything else about Hanasia sucks hard. Actually, her kick-ass-ness also sucks hard with her because it's too much. Super special strongest Saiyan who also fights outside her weight class? bleh.

SonOfSharknado Love is Love is Love Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Love is Love is Love
#7603: Jul 31st 2014 at 3:45:59 AM

The textbook definition of how to poorly write a strong, independent woman.

My various fanfics.
BaffleBlend Hey there! Having fun? from Somewhere Since: Dec, 2012 Relationship Status: LET'S HAVE A ZILLION BABIES
Hey there! Having fun?
#7604: Jul 31st 2014 at 5:23:29 AM

I have a headcanon that Hanasia overestimates her own power level due to being shown on-page to not believe in scouters. It makes her slightly more palatable.

(And at least she's only in an alternate universe. Universe 3.)

Gine, though... I really want to like her because she's canon and adorable. But due to the fact that she's not Badass Adorable at the same time... *grumble*

edited 31st Jul '14 5:27:09 AM by BaffleBlend

"It's liberating, realizing you never need to be competent." — Ultimatepheer
SonOfSharknado Love is Love is Love Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Love is Love is Love
#7605: Jul 31st 2014 at 5:39:29 AM

In my headcanon, she can fight, but she just enjoys cooking and knows it's a valuable profession in the big eater Saiyan society.

My various fanfics.
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#7606: Jul 31st 2014 at 5:54:51 AM

[up][up] But the power levels Salagir gave contradict that. Granted, she only has the second highest battle power of all Saiyans, but it's still bullshit.

Demongodofchaos2 Face me now, bitch! from In a Cultivation World (Ancient one) Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Face me now, bitch!
#7607: Jul 31st 2014 at 6:56:39 AM

If Gine was a Toriko esque chef, I'd approve of her more.

edited 31st Jul '14 6:56:50 AM by Demongodofchaos2

Watch Symphogear
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#7608: Jul 31st 2014 at 7:20:06 AM

This conversation is making me prefer Gine to Hanasia despite having never read anything with either character in it.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
FOFD Since: Apr, 2013
#7609: Jul 31st 2014 at 8:02:29 AM

The only argument made about her thus far is that "she sucks", that she's stronger than she should be, and she's arrogant - and then it's just Acceptable Target from there.

Saiyans are practically the definition of implausibility and arrogance. There was never a Saiyan defined as the "strongest" that I'm aware of, other than maybe King Vegeta (and mind, that's the same as assuming King Cold is stronger than Frieza because he's the King and Frieza's the Prince), and perhaps Broly if you count that film.

We're only told that the rest were killed by Frieza. So fanon having a "strongest Saiyan woman"? Again, where is the bad side? Why didn't she show up in canon? (Why didn't Gine?) Because Frieza blew the planet up before anyone knew what was going on.

Hanasia because there's more to each character to that and everything else about Hanasia sucks hard. Actually, her kick-ass-ness also sucks hard with her because it's too much. Super special strongest Saiyan who also fights outside her weight class?

The textbook definition of how to poorly write a strong, independent woman.

Really? I disagree.

edited 31st Jul '14 10:38:09 AM by FOFD

DoctorDiabolical So pure. Since: Mar, 2010
So pure.
#7610: Jul 31st 2014 at 8:41:23 AM

I prefer Hanasia to Gine. For one thing because being the "super special strongest Saiyan" (something DBM never made a bigger deal of than they should have) is a lot less jarring for me than being the "randomly special Saiyan who spurns Saiyan tradition to be a good housewife."

It helps that the strongest base Saiyan is still shit in the grand scheme of things. Zarbon could've probably killed her acting alone, provided there was no full moon.

edited 31st Jul '14 8:47:22 AM by DoctorDiabolical

BaffleBlend Hey there! Having fun? from Somewhere Since: Dec, 2012 Relationship Status: LET'S HAVE A ZILLION BABIES
Hey there! Having fun?
#7611: Jul 31st 2014 at 8:56:43 AM

[up][up]Having an Original Character be better than canon characters at anything is a pretty clear indicator of not just a Mary Sue, but a Mary Sue Classic.

That's our problem with her.

[up]The fact that she was killed by Dr. Raichi with the rest of Universe 3's Saiyans except for Bardock also helps.

edited 31st Jul '14 9:00:54 AM by BaffleBlend

"It's liberating, realizing you never need to be competent." — Ultimatepheer
DoctorDiabolical So pure. Since: Mar, 2010
So pure.
#7612: Jul 31st 2014 at 9:34:06 AM

Having an Original Character be better than canon characters at anything is a pretty clear indicator of not just a Mary Sue, but a Mary Sue Classic.
That's silly. When you're writing a fanfic that aims to expand on the universe, you shouldn't pretend the canon characters just happen to be the most shining examples of any particular thing (much less everything) in their world, unless the original work's author actually intended it to be that way.

edited 31st Jul '14 9:37:22 AM by DoctorDiabolical

FOFD Since: Apr, 2013
#7613: Jul 31st 2014 at 10:40:24 AM

[up][up]

Provided she isn't showing up everyone all the time and being overly smug about it, and being deified/justified at every opportunity, it really doesn't affect me.

Following the Laconic, Gine is closer to Mary Sue Classic than Hanasia. Bardock actually cares about Gine and vice versa, whereas Hanasia's relationship with him is more ambiguous, if not turbulent. (At one point, Hanasia even threatens to kill Bardock if his Crazy Awesome plan doesn't work).

edited 31st Jul '14 10:53:00 AM by FOFD

Aquaconda (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#7614: Jul 31st 2014 at 2:33:07 PM

Looking at this, they both seem bad.

[down][awesome]

edited 31st Jul '14 3:05:04 PM by Aquaconda

BaffleBlend Hey there! Having fun? from Somewhere Since: Dec, 2012 Relationship Status: LET'S HAVE A ZILLION BABIES
Hey there! Having fun?
#7615: Jul 31st 2014 at 3:02:29 PM

They may look bad, but there's a good reason for that -- they ARE bad.

"It's liberating, realizing you never need to be competent." — Ultimatepheer
FireShadow (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#7616: Jul 31st 2014 at 5:15:08 PM

Sorry to derail the current "female Saiyans suck" discussion but IGN posted a Top 10 Anime Villains list. Guess which Dragon Ball villain made the list?

Vegeta

And to add insult to injury, he came third on the list. The list in general though is kinda fucked up.

My personal addition would have been Super Buu, but considering his iconic status in the Dragon Ball universe and out of the fandom, you'd think Freeza would make the list. I mean he's essentially the most horrifying traits of Hitler, Joseph Stalin, Napoleon and Xenomorph put together.

edited 31st Jul '14 5:19:16 PM by FireShadow

Aquaconda (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#7617: Jul 31st 2014 at 5:33:02 PM

Vegeta? You have Frieza, Cell, and Buu as the major villains, and he chooses Vegeta. As number 3. Above the likes of Father and the Major.

To add insult to injury minor villain Shou Tucker and InvincibleVillain Naraku are on there and Light is number 2.

BaffleBlend Hey there! Having fun? from Somewhere Since: Dec, 2012 Relationship Status: LET'S HAVE A ZILLION BABIES
Hey there! Having fun?
#7618: Jul 31st 2014 at 7:08:52 PM

I don't know, I agree with Vegeta being the best villain, personally. Maybe not in the beginning, but his generally being a horrible person with selfish motives throughout the series (especially the Cell Saga) despite begrudgingly helping the heroes and the walking Crowning Moment Of Nightmare Fuel known as Majin Vegeta cemented it to me.

Buu comes pretty close, though.

The villains that are more sympathetic are always more terrifying when you realize, oh yeah, they're still evil and about to kill us.

edited 31st Jul '14 7:11:10 PM by BaffleBlend

"It's liberating, realizing you never need to be competent." — Ultimatepheer
Nikkolas from Texas Since: Dec, 2009 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#7619: Jul 31st 2014 at 7:35:24 PM

I saw no Sousuke Aizen therefore the list isn't that bad.

The list was an obvious mishmash of popular shounen and popular seinen. Vicious is only on there because a bunch of 12-year-olds saw CB and thought it was amazingly deep and well-written which I guess it was compared to DBZ and Pokemon.

Shou Tucker I can understand. The sheer visceral reaction most people have to what he did to Nina cannot be denied.

Johan was an obvious #1. Father should indeed have been higher. Griffith should have been #1.

Frankly, I'd omit any DBZ villain, let alone Vegeta. MAYBE include King Piccolo. But if we have to keep it to the realm of popular shounen, throw in Younger Toguro or maybe even Elder Toguro.

edited 31st Jul '14 7:36:54 PM by Nikkolas

DoctorDiabolical So pure. Since: Mar, 2010
So pure.
#7620: Jul 31st 2014 at 7:45:13 PM

IMO, The Major deserved his spot, at least.

Nikkolas from Texas Since: Dec, 2009 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#7621: Jul 31st 2014 at 7:51:38 PM

All of Hellsing's antagonists were great, including The Major.

it helped that I was rooting for them though. Never liked Alucard.

FOFD Since: Apr, 2013
#7622: Jul 31st 2014 at 7:59:41 PM

For those of us who are lazy (ranked from 10 to 1):

  • Father (Fullmetal Alchemist)
  • Vicious (Cowboy Bebop)
  • Shou Tucker (Fullmetal Alchemist)
  • Naraku (Inuyasha)
  • Griffith (Berserk)
  • Lucy/Kaede/Nyu (Elfen Lied)
  • The Major (Hellsing Ultimate)
  • Vegeta (Dragon Ball Z)
  • Light (Death Note)
  • Johan Liebert (Monster)

I haven't finished Berserk, so no comment.

It's not the worst list I've ever seen. Depends on the criteria. I'd remove The Major, Lucy, and Shou Tucker - unless this were a gore list, where Lucy would be on top, or a "dickery" list, where The Major would be on top, or a list based on monstrosity - I'd probably put Shou Tucker at the top.

BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#7623: Jul 31st 2014 at 11:42:01 PM

It should be noted that Vegeta took the entire series to pull a Heel–Face Turn, and up until that point, he was honestly no better than the villains, even if he was technically on the heroes`side(And that's being kind).

edited 31st Jul '14 11:42:36 PM by BlackYakuzu94

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
Nikkolas from Texas Since: Dec, 2009 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#7624: Aug 1st 2014 at 4:40:33 AM

He was definitely a villain but the problems are:

1. He's from DBZ.

2. He was a villain you rooted for, especially against Freeza. I doubt I was the only kid who thought he was "badass" for kicking ass and taking names and not acting like our pussy heroes.

This is in sharp contrast to most of the other villains on the list who were just straight up antagonists all the time. Griffith is the only exception, which is why he's the best, but overall the various villains represent so many different kinds of villainy that it really is just a mishmash of popular series.

I won't complain Naraku is on there though. Inuyasha can always use more love.

mrsunshinesprinkles Forever Gorgeous from Somewhere, crying Since: Jan, 2012
Forever Gorgeous
#7625: Aug 1st 2014 at 4:55:25 AM

1. So being in DBZ is an inherent flaw...? Or are you talking about some of the Idiot Ball-ness that a lot of people get sucked into, post Namek Saga, Vegeta included?

2. A villain so entertaining you end up rooting for him is a good one in my book.

"Curry killed the pussy hoping that I could kill the hate in you" - Curry, D. "TABOO | TA13OO." TA13OO, PH, 2018

Total posts: 130,800
Top