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Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#75051: Jan 9th 2018 at 11:47:27 PM

Goku didn't surpass Beerus by that. He was still quite short, without being totally irrelevant and I preferred that being the case.

It's also because Goku was so powerful originally that this was the case. It wouldn't just make any Saiyan that powerful.

I'm not fond of the ritual or God either but it's a thing now, and I don't see it much worse than UI: Omen which we don't even have an explanation for.

hardcorefakes coolest_guy from probably America Since: Oct, 2015 Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
coolest_guy
#75052: Jan 10th 2018 at 12:03:55 AM

Well, I never said that he surpassed Beerus with Blue. Just that I'm happy that he didn't.

I like Ultra Instinct more because Goku had to go through much more effort to attain it than he did SSG. And it not having a proper explanation right now doesn't hurt it for me either because we got a decent explanation from Whis that I was satisfied with. He had to almost die to achieve this. Basically, SSG seems much cheaper than UI.

[down] It's more effort than holding hands in a circle and singing Kumbaya.

edited 10th Jan '18 12:05:26 AM by hardcorefakes

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#75053: Jan 10th 2018 at 12:04:41 AM

Did he? Because honestly getting your ass kicked and nearly dying isn't that much effort.

GAP Formerly G.G. from Who Knows? Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: In love with love
Formerly G.G.
#75054: Jan 10th 2018 at 1:18:01 AM

I really like Cell, he is my favorite villain as he serves as a reflection of the heroes own flaws and vices as well as their strengths. I even read once of this forum on hoe Cell is in w awy Frieza done right in terms of personality although it is arguable. I really wish that Cell or Buu was in this arc as opposed to Frieza but Cell is really hard to draw as well as animate and Buu is way too powerful for the story they want to tell. There is always fanfiction as suppose.....

"Mai waifu."
hardcorefakes coolest_guy from probably America Since: Oct, 2015 Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
coolest_guy
#75055: Jan 10th 2018 at 1:44:20 AM

I wonder how'd you go about convincing Cell to participate in the TOP. Would he care if U7 were erased?

EpicBleye drunk bunny from her bed being very eepy Since: Sep, 2014 Relationship Status: In Lesbians with you
drunk bunny
#75056: Jan 10th 2018 at 3:00:56 AM

The bigger question is his ego- the cell saga tournament was meant to boost his own ego, not to actually find someone who could beat him.

Ergo the TOP would probably be the absolute worst place for him since it's full of people that are way stronger than he is, including the very androids he absorbed somehow

"There's not a girl alive who wouldn't be happy being called cute." ~Tamamo-no-Mae
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#75057: Jan 10th 2018 at 3:02:23 AM

"It's more effort than holding hands in a circle and singing Kumbaya."

Which isn't what Goku did to achieve Blue.

Eriorguez Since: Jun, 2009
#75058: Jan 10th 2018 at 3:47:25 AM

Cell likes to fight like the Saiyans and Piccolo, and likes to torture people like Freeza. Yeah, he'd have fun, except for the fact that he wouldn't be directly causing the demise of anybody.

Cell's personality is pretty much Goku + Vegeta + Piccolo + Freeza anyway, but that's buried by its "complete development" directive. And, despite having lighter shades of black in his makeup, when the chips are down, Cell reacts just like Freeza: Spitefully egotistical and egocentrical, unable to see anybody else as anything but inferior.

Yep, he'd be interesting to have in the To P. Interactions between Cell and the Androids/Freeza/Gohan, Beerus and U6 going WTF, Cell going WTF at Blue and Golden...

Mmm, Goku, Vegeta, Gohan, Piccolo, Future Trunks, Gotenks, Buu, Cell and Freeza could had been a nice alternative To P team...

Sigilbreaker26 Serial Procrastinator Since: Nov, 2017
Serial Procrastinator
#75059: Jan 10th 2018 at 5:06:42 AM

It does make you wonder why they don't do the ritual for Gohan (unless you need to be a fullblooded Saiyan to pull it off).

"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"
BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#75060: Jan 10th 2018 at 5:28:34 AM

Because he's not relevant anymore. And likely to keep the God forms exclusive.

In universe, Vegeta didn't need it, sure Gohan doesn't either.

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
Kayeka (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#75061: Jan 10th 2018 at 6:16:55 AM

[up][up]Well, there was the bit where Gohan proclaimed he was looking for a greater form unlike anything seen before, and he would take a different path from Goku.

You know, just before getting his ass handed to him by SSB Goku.

Hobgoblin Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#75062: Jan 10th 2018 at 9:18:28 AM

Toriyama only gives new toys to Goku. And maybe Vegeta when he's thinking of what new toys he can give to Goku to make Vegeta's look shabbier in comparison.

GAP Formerly G.G. from Who Knows? Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: In love with love
Formerly G.G.
#75063: Jan 10th 2018 at 9:25:47 AM

Goku will always get the cool new forms while everyone else gets the leftovers. Toriyama tried to subvert this at several points but he fell back on Goku.

edited 10th Jan '18 9:27:02 AM by GAP

"Mai waifu."
Hobgoblin Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#75064: Jan 10th 2018 at 9:43:10 AM

To be honest, it's not Power Levels that themselves are the problem. If it had been quantified that Goku was at 500 and Raditz was 1200, but Goku could pull out techniques that could close that gap, that alone would have been fine.

The problem is when they decided to also give Goku the Kaioken which, while I love, started the whole multiplier thing. So by the end of Namek, Goku's dead friends are 1200ish, while Goku was, what, 10 times stronger than them minimum? And then has a Super Saiyan multiplier that increases that by x50?

Sigilbreaker26 Serial Procrastinator Since: Nov, 2017
Serial Procrastinator
#75065: Jan 10th 2018 at 10:03:05 AM

In fairness, power levels post Freeza-second form (including that damned 50x multiplier) are all in supplementary materials.

"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#75066: Jan 10th 2018 at 10:05:40 AM

Well this is because Toriyama began phasing out those guys (arguably since they first appeared).

Then again, the gap between them and Goku has always been hilariously big, as they were only ever around to hype up Goku's fights, and were often phased out of the story so Goku could go it alone for a bit.

...might be a bit of an exaggeration on my part. But yeah, in hindsight, Kaioken was kinda wasted on Goku. Not only did he get something even better, but Kaioken was then left in the dust by subsequent increases in power.

And as Saiga has said, it doesn't really seem to have an upper limit beyond how much your body can take.

One Strip! One Strip!
Sigilbreaker26 Serial Procrastinator Since: Nov, 2017
Serial Procrastinator
#75067: Jan 10th 2018 at 10:22:26 AM

Well, that's fight wise. In practice, when you get to the Z arcs they tend to carry the burden of the actual story while Goku is out of commission so he can come back and save them all.

"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#75068: Jan 10th 2018 at 10:26:21 AM

That's true I suppose.

Nothing much more to say I guess. We've had this conversation a million times.

One Strip! One Strip!
Sigilbreaker26 Serial Procrastinator Since: Nov, 2017
Serial Procrastinator
#75069: Jan 10th 2018 at 10:27:16 AM

Mmmm.

So, anyone ever want to see the Power Pole make a reappearance?

"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"
LordVatek Not really a lord of anything Since: Sep, 2014
Not really a lord of anything
#75070: Jan 10th 2018 at 10:29:41 AM

I want to see Goku give it to Pan.

This song needs more love.
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#75071: Jan 10th 2018 at 10:33:43 AM

Does he still have it?

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Arha Since: Jan, 2010
#75072: Jan 10th 2018 at 10:38:07 AM

Dende retracted it inside the lookout and then made the whole thing float over to 17.

Hobgoblin Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#75073: Jan 10th 2018 at 10:38:26 AM

I miss Goku's Sun Wukong elements.

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#75074: Jan 10th 2018 at 10:45:25 AM

Huh. If Toriyama were willing, he could totally have Pan inherit all of Goku's old Sun Wukong elements:

  • The power pole / Nyoi-bo;

  • The Kintouin;

...well everything except the tail, since he's still on his fuck the tails attitude.

Then again, he's rarely about looking back, so I doubt that will happen, and he seems uninterested in moving beyond Goku, or at least documenting that part himself.

One Strip! One Strip!
Sigilbreaker26 Serial Procrastinator Since: Nov, 2017
Serial Procrastinator
#75075: Jan 10th 2018 at 10:48:25 AM

I'm not sure he's against it so much as he knows for a fact it will be less popular, especially overseas.

"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"

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