In fact, most of the Gods have failed to master Ultra Instinct. Whis said so when he first brought it up, and it's the reason Goku achieving it is such a big deal.
The most consistent thing is that the higher your ki, the more impossible it is for the other dude to win. After that, it's only possible if you have some power that works around it, and that only takes you so far.
One Strip! One Strip!Can't recall. One of us would have to re-watch the Jiren fight to know for sure.
One Strip! One Strip!I'm talking about before the current arc, when Whis first talked about a universe with a mortal stronger than a GOD. I can't remember when that first came up
edit: Oh wait, that was when Beerus mentioned the arm wrestling match. But you're right, the way Whis says it, he's clearly calling Belmoud stronger so yeah, Jiren is stronger than Beerus. And if Beerus was still stronger after all this time I'd be annoyed
edited 5th Jan '18 2:40:29 PM by Saiga
If you consider that Jiren is stronger than Vermoud and possibly all the Gods of Destruction (the exact wording was "a mortal even a God of Destruction can't beat", and there's been various other places that imply that Jiren might be above the level of God of Destruction itself), and that Ultra Instinct Goku is capable of fighting Jiren and has mastery over a power none of the other Gods of Destruction do, you can extrapolate some interesting things.
SS2 Kafla was a threat to UI Goku, able to tank his punches and kill him with her ultimate attack. I think Kafla might be stronger than her God of Destruction, Champa.
edited 5th Jan '18 2:53:32 PM by PushoverMediaCritic
I think that's misinterpreting it. Jiren never thought Goku's punches were weak, and Goku didn't notice anything wrong until his fight with Kafla.
I'm pretty sure he only had the trouble with punching against Kafla, so his UI wasn't so balanced the second time around and that makes Kafla's power much murkier.
There's also Piccolo's line: "(referring to Kafla) This power... it might even surpass Son's earlier level! But if Kafla's power up could further draw out Son's power..."
The wording is a little ambiguous and up to interpretation, but I read it as "Kafla has become stronger than Goku was when fighting Jiren. But if he can grow even stronger in response, he might win!"
edited 5th Jan '18 3:40:59 PM by PushoverMediaCritic
That's how I read that line too, and it pissed me off.
But I don't think they meant Goku is better at "defense Ultra Instinct" just that the first time he wasn't really thinking at all when using it so his defense and offense were equal. Now that he knows what's going on, he's only not thinking while defending, but thinking while attacking which is throwing everything off.
It's probably something he's going to have to overcome otherwise he'll do even worse against Jiren this time.
edited 5th Jan '18 3:51:06 PM by LSBK
I doubt it. In shonen the main villain is very rarely not at full strength before the final fight. That's why You Can't Thwart Stage One is a thing; they're usually powered up as well.
edited 5th Jan '18 3:50:37 PM by Sigilbreaker26
"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"Yeah, there was the line about Kafla probably surpassed earlier UI Goku. Which is weird, because the other reactions indicate that this UI Goku isn't as effective due to an imbalance in attack and defense. Though it's possible that Goku is becoming stronger while experiencing a set back in attack along the way.
And yeah, I thought the idea was that as a trade-off from actually being conscious and in control of himself, he's now thinking too much. I think the ideal UI is going to be fully using attack/defense without overthinking without being reduced to a unconscious state.

I don't think Z's habit of introducing new forms nearly every arc should be continued, even though I don't think it was a problem in Z. At some point it just becomes too much, and Z avoided it but didn't leave much room for growth after it. It also gets to the point where Goku just has too many forms, which is why I liked Ultimate Gohan or RF making it appear that Goku had phased out all but his newest form.
UI is something I like, but the fact that the form is labelled 'Omen' worries me that another version of the form isn't too far away. And if Blue had been better handled, I could be happy with stopping at that. I also don't mind Blue and God both existing if God had been the ritual one-off and Blue was just the permanent form of God, but turning God into another form to have and having Blue be an even more powered up form makes the two forms feel really bloated.
edited 5th Jan '18 1:58:01 PM by Saiga