I think the major reason Super is controversial (aside from its overall shaky quality) is that it's driving a wedge between the sections of the community who care about power scaling and those who don't, and between those who are willing to Fan Wank answers to a lot of power scaling problems and those who aren't.
"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"![]()
and
Makes sense.
I can admittedly be pretty stubborn about how I feel about certain things in this thread. But I've also learned a lot about the series and my own preconceptions from the discussions here. I've learned a lot about how dragon ball and Toriyama work...a lot of it I don't like, but it hasn't come close to dousing my love of the series.
And while I get the feeling some topic can get ragged on pretty hard, I suspect that's almost as much to do with how often they get brought up (and how tired people are of them) as much as anything else. I mean, how many times can we talk about Tien or Yamcha? Why don't we ever talk about Chiaotzu?
Oh wait. Nobody cares about Chiaotzu.
So while I still want all of you to declare the greatest DBZ fan in history and bow down to me unequivocally....no, no, there's nothing else. Just say I'm always right.
But yeah, we're a stubborn bunch that love our Dragonball.
One Strip! One Strip!It's too bad those words can sound the same..but don't.
edited 5th Jan '18 9:11:58 AM by randomness4
Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.I don't think I was as hyped as everyone else, since it felt like the big Namek beats of the fight against Frieza (Kaoiken x20, Spirit Bomb, new transformation that evens the odds), but I will admit that the way Ultra Instinct looks and moves (Goku being at the bottom of the hole before stepping forward slightly and almost kicking Jiren's head off) is pretty cool.
They had no problems with the mortal level and didn't need to be erased...?
Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.Like, how long has it been since Kaioken Blue? Surely we can have some time before the next....
wait a sec....
Oh. Huh. Dragonball in the Z period literally can't go an arc without giving him a new form. Well, can't say they're being inconsistent.
"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"At the very least Ultra Instinct feels fresh and new and exciting in a lot of ways.
I just wonder how they're going to close the power gap after this- Goku went from being strictly under Beerus to significantly stronger than him. Not that it's inherently a bad thing.
"There's not a girl alive who wouldn't be happy being called cute." ~Tamamo-no-Mae![]()
He didn't get a new form after the Freeza saga until fighting Veggie in the Boo Saga revealed he had SSJ2.
edited 5th Jan '18 12:48:08 PM by randomness4
Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.They specifically say that Jiren is stronger than the GOD of his universe, who is stronger than Beerus. With UI, Goku starts being able to take on the dude that is stronger than the god of destruction that is stronger than beerus.
edited 5th Jan '18 12:50:58 PM by EpicBleye
"There's not a girl alive who wouldn't be happy being called cute." ~Tamamo-no-MaeDamn. I don't think you could have dropped that mic any harder.
edited 5th Jan '18 2:37:07 PM by Soble
I'M MR. MEESEEKS, LOOK AT ME!![]()
I mean, I can understand not seeing it as a different form, but I think the power increase and the fact that it has basically no stamina cost make it significantly different in my mind.
While I'm at it I might as well say this, I'm not really sure what people are expecting from DBZ these days. Half of times it seems like people are expecting some sort of excellent literature from such a simple series. It's really just a story that goes to Point A to Point B. I feel like people give this series too much credit & yet at the exact same time not enough credit. Guys like Beerus & Vegeta should've never been complex & yet they are. And the series is better for it. Yea, I know there's a bunch of contradiction in my rant, but I never said I was any better than internet or anyone else on it to begin with. :/
I have a similar problem in regards to most other media. I will admit that I do expect more from Dragon Ball because it left quite an impression when I was growing up. While I did have an idea that Dragon Ball was a quirky series, I had no idea of its "actual" spirit until I learned about Toriyama, the culture that surrounded Dragon Ball and the writing that I find myself become disillusioned with the show. Draogn Ball was enver high literature yet there was always apart of me that felt Dragon Ball especially Super could had been a lot better than it actually is and that it could expand on what Dragon Ball is. Dragon Ball is not a bad series but I did find myself becoming turned off by everything about Dragon Ball as I learned more about it. Dragon Ball was never a superhero story, it was a story about a country bumpkin who goes on adventures, learning martial arts and about himself.
Dragon Ball had never been that consistent with its power scaling but there some consistency to the power scaling.
Sad but true. I did watch three episodes subbed from the time I spent with my cousin's friend in New york when I was a kid, most of my exposure with Dragon Ball was through Toonami and from what I can find from sites on the internet. I hadn't read the manga until fairly recently.
I agree with this statement. I too went through an "existential crisis" as well as five stages of grief in regards to Dragon ball before I accepted it for what it is. While I don't like every aspect of Dragon Ball, I still enjoy the show and I am still a fan.
"Mai waifu."

Is it weird that Kakarrot had to be convinced to give up the 1st time when he was stronger...?
But the 2nd time when he knew he was weaker, he gave up no problem...
It's also quite convenient that Great Ape Kakarrot never left the ring...
edited 5th Jan '18 8:23:12 AM by randomness4
Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.