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randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#74451: Jan 5th 2018 at 8:19:40 AM

Is it weird that Kakarrot had to be convinced to give up the 1st time when he was stronger...?

But the 2nd time when he knew he was weaker, he gave up no problem...

It's also quite convenient that Great Ape Kakarrot never left the ring...

edited 5th Jan '18 8:23:12 AM by randomness4

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
Sigilbreaker26 Serial Procrastinator Since: Nov, 2017
Serial Procrastinator
#74452: Jan 5th 2018 at 8:23:17 AM

I think the major reason Super is controversial (aside from its overall shaky quality) is that it's driving a wedge between the sections of the community who care about power scaling and those who don't, and between those who are willing to Fan Wank answers to a lot of power scaling problems and those who aren't.

"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"
BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#74453: Jan 5th 2018 at 8:47:59 AM

Or more simply, it's just a generation gap between newer fans who are being introduced to the series mostly through Super and older fans who grew up with it on Toonami and read the manga.

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#74454: Jan 5th 2018 at 8:55:00 AM

[up][up]and[up]

Makes sense.

I can admittedly be pretty stubborn about how I feel about certain things in this thread. But I've also learned a lot about the series and my own preconceptions from the discussions here. I've learned a lot about how dragon ball and Toriyama work...a lot of it I don't like, but it hasn't come close to dousing my love of the series.

And while I get the feeling some topic can get ragged on pretty hard, I suspect that's almost as much to do with how often they get brought up (and how tired people are of them) as much as anything else. I mean, how many times can we talk about Tien or Yamcha? Why don't we ever talk about Chiaotzu?

Oh wait. Nobody cares about Chiaotzu.tongue

So while I still want all of you to declare the greatest DBZ fan in history and bow down to me unequivocally....no, no, there's nothing else. Just say I'm always right.

But yeah, we're a stubborn bunch that love our Dragonball.

One Strip! One Strip!
EpicBleye drunk bunny from her bed being very eepy Since: Sep, 2014 Relationship Status: In Lesbians with you
drunk bunny
#74455: Jan 5th 2018 at 9:03:01 AM

man it annoys me that this orb dude is calling his power reflection

what he's doing is refraction, not reflection

"There's not a girl alive who wouldn't be happy being called cute." ~Tamamo-no-Mae
randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#74456: Jan 5th 2018 at 9:11:30 AM

It's too bad those words can sound the same..but don't.

edited 5th Jan '18 9:11:58 AM by randomness4

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#74457: Jan 5th 2018 at 11:41:05 AM

I miss the gore.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
EpicBleye drunk bunny from her bed being very eepy Since: Sep, 2014 Relationship Status: In Lesbians with you
drunk bunny
#74458: Jan 5th 2018 at 11:43:17 AM

okay ultra instinct was badass and had me excited like nothing else in super. like damn.

"There's not a girl alive who wouldn't be happy being called cute." ~Tamamo-no-Mae
Hobgoblin Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#74459: Jan 5th 2018 at 11:58:01 AM

I don't think I was as hyped as everyone else, since it felt like the big Namek beats of the fight against Frieza (Kaoiken x20, Spirit Bomb, new transformation that evens the odds), but I will admit that the way Ultra Instinct looks and moves (Goku being at the bottom of the hole before stepping forward slightly and almost kicking Jiren's head off) is pretty cool.

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#74460: Jan 5th 2018 at 12:00:54 PM

I like the idea of it being more of a defensive transformation than anything, but admittedly I'm pretty burnt out on all the new forms for Goku.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#74461: Jan 5th 2018 at 12:11:15 PM

So what's this about the universes that were exempt from the tournament having to pick between Universe 7 and Universe 11?

randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#74462: Jan 5th 2018 at 12:13:56 PM

They had no problems with the mortal level and didn't need to be erased...?

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#74463: Jan 5th 2018 at 12:16:32 PM

Its over 7 or something.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Hobgoblin Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#74464: Jan 5th 2018 at 12:32:54 PM

Maybe they're just making tasteless bets on which universe will be erased.

I'm pretty burnt out on all the new forms for Goku.

Same.

Sigilbreaker26 Serial Procrastinator Since: Nov, 2017
Serial Procrastinator
#74465: Jan 5th 2018 at 12:35:25 PM

Like, how long has it been since Kaioken Blue? Surely we can have some time before the next....

wait a sec....

Oh. Huh. Dragonball in the Z period literally can't go an arc without giving him a new form. Well, can't say they're being inconsistent.

"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"
EpicBleye drunk bunny from her bed being very eepy Since: Sep, 2014 Relationship Status: In Lesbians with you
drunk bunny
#74466: Jan 5th 2018 at 12:43:51 PM

At the very least Ultra Instinct feels fresh and new and exciting in a lot of ways.

I just wonder how they're going to close the power gap after this- Goku went from being strictly under Beerus to significantly stronger than him. Not that it's inherently a bad thing.

"There's not a girl alive who wouldn't be happy being called cute." ~Tamamo-no-Mae
randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#74467: Jan 5th 2018 at 12:47:54 PM

[up][up]He didn't get a new form after the Freeza saga until fighting Veggie in the Boo Saga revealed he had SSJ2.

edited 5th Jan '18 12:48:08 PM by randomness4

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
Larfleeze Agent Orange Since: May, 2009
Agent Orange
#74468: Jan 5th 2018 at 12:47:54 PM

[up]Goku is not stronger than Berrus.

edited 5th Jan '18 12:48:26 PM by Larfleeze

Do you know what people want the most? Something somebody else has.
EpicBleye drunk bunny from her bed being very eepy Since: Sep, 2014 Relationship Status: In Lesbians with you
drunk bunny
#74469: Jan 5th 2018 at 12:50:12 PM

They specifically say that Jiren is stronger than the GOD of his universe, who is stronger than Beerus. With UI, Goku starts being able to take on the dude that is stronger than the god of destruction that is stronger than beerus.

edited 5th Jan '18 12:50:58 PM by EpicBleye

"There's not a girl alive who wouldn't be happy being called cute." ~Tamamo-no-Mae
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#74470: Jan 5th 2018 at 12:50:52 PM

If he ends up beating Jiren, that's what the story expects us to believe.

Sigilbreaker26 Serial Procrastinator Since: Nov, 2017
Serial Procrastinator
#74471: Jan 5th 2018 at 1:03:20 PM

Well, I consider Full-Power Super Saiyan to be a new form.

"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"
Soble Since: Dec, 2013
#74473: Jan 5th 2018 at 1:07:21 PM

Damn. I don't think you could have dropped that mic any harder.

edited 5th Jan '18 2:37:07 PM by Soble

I'M MR. MEESEEKS, LOOK AT ME!
Sigilbreaker26 Serial Procrastinator Since: Nov, 2017
Serial Procrastinator
#74474: Jan 5th 2018 at 1:34:31 PM

[up][up] I mean, I can understand not seeing it as a different form, but I think the power increase and the fact that it has basically no stamina cost make it significantly different in my mind.

"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"
GAP Formerly G.G. from Who Knows? Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: In love with love
Formerly G.G.
#74475: Jan 5th 2018 at 1:48:19 PM

I'm going to be blunt about this. If there's anything I learn from my time as a Fire Emblem fan, I'm not actually respecting opinion as so much as I am ignoring it. I discover that I have a major case of Opinion Myopia. I can somewhat understand some reactions but not to the point someone is actively hating something for an abstract reason. I honest to god don't like that part of myself, but the internet is such a god awful place to be at that I'm pretty applying Sturgeon's Law everywhere I go. Have I met decent folks over the years? Of course I have, but for it only takes a few rotten apples to spoil the entire barrel.

While I'm at it I might as well say this, I'm not really sure what people are expecting from DBZ these days. Half of times it seems like people are expecting some sort of excellent literature from such a simple series. It's really just a story that goes to Point A to Point B. I feel like people give this series too much credit & yet at the exact same time not enough credit. Guys like Beerus & Vegeta should've never been complex & yet they are. And the series is better for it. Yea, I know there's a bunch of contradiction in my rant, but I never said I was any better than internet or anyone else on it to begin with. :/

I have a similar problem in regards to most other media. I will admit that I do expect more from Dragon Ball because it left quite an impression when I was growing up. While I did have an idea that Dragon Ball was a quirky series, I had no idea of its "actual" spirit until I learned about Toriyama, the culture that surrounded Dragon Ball and the writing that I find myself become disillusioned with the show. Draogn Ball was enver high literature yet there was always apart of me that felt Dragon Ball especially Super could had been a lot better than it actually is and that it could expand on what Dragon Ball is. Dragon Ball is not a bad series but I did find myself becoming turned off by everything about Dragon Ball as I learned more about it. Dragon Ball was never a superhero story, it was a story about a country bumpkin who goes on adventures, learning martial arts and about himself.

I think the major reason Super is controversial (aside from its overall shaky quality) is that it's driving a wedge between the sections of the community who care about power scaling and those who don't, and between those who are willing to Fan Wank answers to a lot of power scaling problems and those who aren't.

Dragon Ball had never been that consistent with its power scaling but there some consistency to the power scaling.

Or more simply, it's just a generation gap between newer fans who are being introduced to the series mostly through Super and older fans who grew up with it on Toonami and read the manga.

Sad but true. I did watch three episodes subbed from the time I spent with my cousin's friend in New york when I was a kid, most of my exposure with Dragon Ball was through Toonami and from what I can find from sites on the internet. I hadn't read the manga until fairly recently.

Makes sense. I can admittedly be pretty stubborn about how I feel about certain things in this thread. But I've also learned a lot about the series and my own preconceptions from the discussions here. I've learned a lot about how dragon ball and Toriyama work...a lot of it I don't like, but it hasn't come close to dousing my love of the series. And while I get the feeling some topic can get ragged on pretty hard, I suspect that's almost as much to do with how often they get brought up (and how tired people are of them) as much as anything else. I mean, how many times can we talk about Tien or Yamcha? Why don't we ever talk about Chiaotzu? Oh wait. Nobody cares about Chiaotzu.tongue So while I still want all of you to declare the greatest DBZ fan in history and bow down to me unequivocally....no, no, there's nothing else. Just say I'm always right. But yeah, we're a stubborn bunch that love our Dragonball.

I agree with this statement. I too went through an "existential crisis" as well as five stages of grief in regards to Dragon ball before I accepted it for what it is. While I don't like every aspect of Dragon Ball, I still enjoy the show and I am still a fan.

"Mai waifu."

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