Oh wow:
First, you're putting words in my month, and implying I'm sexist to deflect criticism from Super. Secondly, I did not consider it a cool moment, but I also said NOTHING about taking away monents from 18 to give them to 17. The fact that I asked why 18 couldn't beat Ribrianne without the power of love multiple times should show that.
I just found it very suspicious that 18 needs to use for the power of love if 17 is meant to represent it as well
Really, it depends on what we're defining as "saved". If we're defining saved as "was in danger of being eliminated", than 18 has only been saved TWICE, once by Krillin and once by Goku. If we're defining saved as in "was about to be hit, but someone came in and intercepted, keeping them from getting hit", than there are literally COUNTLESS moments throughout the tournament that fit that criteria. In the very first episode, Hit and Basil "save" a bunch of people from being hit by Narirama. The latter is a meaningless statistic to try and measure.
Oh and like no-one putting words in my mouth, you included?
edited 4th Jan '18 9:45:41 PM by PushoverMediaCritic
Yes, it IS meaningless as a statistic which Anom brought up. But it's not meaningless as an individual scene to analyze for the context and greater implications of it.
The scene with Basil has absolutely no resemblance to the scene with Pepsiman, and saving people is not the intent of that scene.
Want to point to an example of someone doing that?
edited 4th Jan '18 9:47:11 PM by Saiga
I am! A couple coworkers of mine are getting it as well, plus I'm part of a decent sized fighting game community and I'm sure a lot of people from that will get it too. Granted, Smash Bros is our main focus but a solid handful of our top players also play MVC Infinite and Tekken 7.
So I'm definitely looking forward to it's release- especially since the next major tournament in my area has it as part of its venue.
"There's not a girl alive who wouldn't be happy being called cute." ~Tamamo-no-MaeHmmmmmm
No-where did I say that 18 needed to be the source of the payoff, nor that she needed it to beat Ribrianne, as you stated in a different post. I also didn't say that 17 couldn't have been the pay-off to that moment.
Logically, the pay-off in question would be one of them beating Ribrianne with love and family on their side to teach Ribrianne her lesson, since that was what the whole episode's throughline was building towards. You were essentially saying that 17 should have 18's big moment, even if you didn't bother to think about the consequences of that change.
edited 4th Jan '18 9:56:13 PM by PushoverMediaCritic
That was directed at the show, not at you.
And no. That's not what I'm saying. Because referencing their families doesn't need to be a big moment. Also my comment was focused on 18 being the only one - I never said 17 should be the only one. So nothing about taking away 18's monents for 17, but finding it suspicious that the show lacked any payoff for that conversatio for 17
So, stop putting words in my mouth. It's not me not thinking about the consequences. It's you deciding what the consequences would be.
18 defeating Ribrianne wouldn't have been nearly as powerful of a moment if she didn't have those flashes of her family beforehand. That moment wouldn't have worked as well if Ribrianne hadn't insulted her family and their love for each other. That moment wouldn't have worked as well if 18 and 17 didn't have their moment where they reminisce about how much they love their families.
You're asking me to hate this beautifully and tightly written and plotted episode just because it has some minor Unfortunate Implications, and I can't in good conscience do such a thing. 18 has enough badass moments where she kicks ass all by herself, let her have one where she's motivated by failing and dooming her husband, whom she loves with all her heart. Not like Goku's equivalent moment in the Future Trunks arc has any detractors.
Just so it's all on the table, here's all of 18's eliminations.
1. U9 Bunny Girl (off screen)
2. U4 Dog guy (team attack with Krillin)
3. Pride Trooper what makes himself heavy
4. Pride Trooper lady with dimension powers
5. Ribrianne (normal and then giant version)
6. U3 Robot (team attack with 17)
On the leaderboard
◊ she is tied at number 5 with Gohan, and before Anilaza gave everyone a huge bump for being 4 eliminations she was
◊ tied at 3 with Frieza.
Anyway, the power of love and fighting for your family are cool and good imo.
edited 4th Jan '18 10:11:14 PM by Moth13
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I don't think anyone is asking you to "hate" anything, just acknowledge that the implications are there, and littered all over their treatment of 18.
I have to agree with Saiga and Yakuza about you putting words in people's mouths and/or intentionally misunderstanding/misinterpreting people's points.
edited 4th Jan '18 10:14:26 PM by LSBK
They could even give 17 the power of love thing if they wanted too. We didn't get to see 17's family for some reason, we know R Ibrianne discriminates people based on looks, 17 didn't change his attire so he could still have his phone, Goku wouldn't give a damn about looks, two of 17's children being adopted. They could easily spin into those children having deformities like Krillin. Ribrianne could ask what kind of wish would a self-centered(from her perspective) person like 17 would wish for, 17 tells her, Ribrianne disbelieves a person like him would have a family, he shows her the picture, she mocks the two adopted children for their physical deformities, then proceed with 17 in 18's place and vice versa without bringing up the ankle BS or the fact that cheering would work when Krillin has always been cheering and shouting 18's name every time she gets in trouble.
Nope. I'm done. Continue if you want, but I'm out of this argument. Nobody here actually listens to opposing opinions, they just hear them and say "no". There's never any "you have a point on blank, but I disagree with you on blank", there never "you're right, my opinion was flawed and you've convinced me to see your side" on any arguments or topics whatsoever.
There's no flexibility here at all, and it's gotten to me too. I don't want this place to turn me into the kind of person who never thinks about my own views and opinions critically and shuts down everyone else's as a knee-jerk reaction, but that's what's happening. I think from now on I'm going to avoid arguments here altogether and just post my reactions to episodes and participate in civil conversation.
edited 4th Jan '18 10:22:32 PM by PushoverMediaCritic
People aren't going to say you have a good point if you don't have one, nor will they be convinced by unconvincing arguments. Is your condition for stay having us admit that you're right?
And those criticisms can easily be turned on you, I have never seen you say you've had your mind changed by the thread. Pot and kettle.
PMC, it's possible that if everyone disagrees with you that you could, in fact, be wrong. But you don't accept that. Which, funnily enough, is exactly what you're accusing people of right now. Also, I guess it's too late on that 'I don't want to become a person who never examines his own opinions' thing because you haven't done that once this conversation. Not once have you admitted that other people might have a point regarding 18. And what you've been doing this whole conversation is trying to shut down other people's opinions as knee jerk reactions or misconstruing what they've said.
I don't really have a dog in this race, so to speak, but are you being a complete and total hypocrite on purpose?
I meant outside of this thread. In Real Life and in other threads, I love having open and back-and-forth discourse. In this thread, however, I'm as unmoving as a rock and I can be an asshole about it, and I hate it. I hate feeling like I can't give an inch or I lose, that's not what discussions should be. I don't want to become the kind of person this thread turns me into, and I hate what this thread's atmosphere has done to me.

I honestly can't tell if Pushover misses the point on purpose, or if he just likes being contrarian for the sake of being contrarian sometimes.
Whatever, not gonna waste my time. I already know how these arguments go.
So let's talk about something else. Who here is planning on getting Fighter Z and do you know anyone irl that's into it as well?
A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.