Yes, actually. I would very much expect DB not to randomly pull out the power of love when it previously hadn't used the trope like that.
And Goku didn't need the power of love to beat the U 2 boys. HMMMMMMMMM very interesting
But she's weaker AND had a worse performance. I brought up Vegeta's strength because it's tied to his performance, most of his K Os and appearances have been him just being consistently stronger than who he deals with
edited 4th Jan '18 9:00:54 PM by Saiga
I didn't mind the Power Of Love bit, more or less because Super's made it clear that "being married" is essentially her and Krillin hat now and every major moment they get from now on is probably going to be like that in some way or another. It's a meh realization, but it's not the worst thing Super's been complacent about. Plus it was a cool moment.
This was the point where I just threw my hands up, because it was almost certainly supposed to make us think about how she got eaten by Cell. You know: "she's getting damselled, and you should care because it's just like the first time she got damseled!"
edited 4th Jan '18 9:06:00 PM by KnownUnknown
Well, yeah, Goku had Blue, why would he need love? It's not like 18 actually got some kind of "love power-up", all that happened was Krillin's love and cheering gave her the motivation to kick ass.
Vegeta hasn't had to struggle and win a fight yet, all he's done is one-shot opponents that Krillin could beat and fight Toppo for a few minutes before they got cut off.
edited 4th Jan '18 9:03:14 PM by PushoverMediaCritic
![]()
![]()
Oh my God your right & that just makes it worse cause it wasted something potentially interesting.
They should have had 17 be almost eaten. Dude is remembered for being absorbed first & they could have easily have the Androids suffer PTSD against Anilaza with a cameo from Cell. This would have made 17's victory over Anilza that much more personal & fulfilling.
Fuck it that fight should have been more than one episode.
"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."![]()
![]()
![]()
And that is exactly why there is a double standard. Goku was put against opponents he could beat by being cool. 18 was put in a situation where she was ready to give up, and needed to be cheered up by a man to find the motivation to beat her opponent by invoking the power of love. None of that needed to happen.
The fact that Vegeta hasn't had to struggle doesn't make him worse lol. He hasn't had to struggle because he's performing so much better.
18 struggled to show how important Kuririn is to her because yay Kuririn
edited 4th Jan '18 9:10:32 PM by Saiga
![]()
Well, no, he does try to grab other people before 18, and he doesn't try anymore because Goku can just teleport them out of harm's way.
But it was cool and made the moment better by making it more personal. That episode's strongest part is when 17 and 18 are just talking with each other about their families, and that was the pay-off of that.
edited 4th Jan '18 9:11:46 PM by PushoverMediaCritic
Yes, it would be cool....if she wasn't the only character struggling like that.
Look, I know you like to hype up these types of moments, but would it kill you to at least try and understand why 18 being singled out as the only member needing to "encouragement" from her husband and family while every other powerful fighter didn't need that is kind of...weird.
A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.A character is not cool because they succeed at everything with minimal difficulty. A character is cool because they struggle and encounter great opposition before overcoming it and coming out on top. This is literally what they teach you in writing 101.
Curbstomp battles are boring. 18 has looked much cooler than Vegeta in this tournament so far. Closest Vegeta's come to being challenged was in his battle against Toppo, which didn't have a conclusion.
@Saiga You want to give 18's best moment to 17? HMMMMMMMMMMM
edited 4th Jan '18 9:20:30 PM by PushoverMediaCritic
They don't need to be present for the characters to be motivated, i dont find that very relevant
On top of it the power of love is just very unfitting for the main cast members
I would advise you ditch any writing class that teaches in such a black and white, reductive manner. It will only do more harm than good.
A lot of cool moments in this series come from curbstomps, and we're originally talking about 'performance' - saying 18 has had a better performance because she struggled is an incredible stretch
edited 4th Jan '18 9:22:42 PM by Saiga
"Cool" is subjective but "effectiveness" isn't in this case. 18 has struggled more than almost everyone else. That is a fact. Vegeta has been fighting and succeeding with much less effort. This is also a fact.
Goku has been through a lot of shit (some of which made no sense, but that's another story) but he's been able to handle it much of it on his own, whereas 18 could not. This is also a fact.
Your subjective opinions on what is "cool" does not change how they have been presented.
Edit: Also, I'm not even sure why this conversation is happening, it's possible to still enjoy these moments while acknowledging the sexism inherent to much (all?) of them.
edited 4th Jan '18 9:24:37 PM by LSBK
And notice how I said almost everyone and specifically mentioned Goku. But even the way they've struggled has been handled noticeably differently, and Goku frankly comes out looking much more competent than she does.
Edit: And before you say "he should", context matters, and even in proper context 18 doesn't come out looking great.
edited 4th Jan '18 9:27:33 PM by LSBK
When Goku struggles, he takes it like a champ and then pulls out some of that stamina he's got hidden several miles up his ass. It makes him look strong for overcoming the struggle. When 18 struggles, she needs to get bailed out by her brother or Krillin, and is pretty helpless during it. It denigrates her to build up her rescuer.
And no, you can't just tally up "person gets saved by another person". The context, dynamic, and intention of each instance makes them incomparable.
edited 4th Jan '18 9:31:06 PM by Anomalocaris20
You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!PMC: I certainly noticed 18 struggle a lot, but only so that other characters could bail her out. So by your definition she isn't cool? And her only notable victory that I can remember was against a joke character who was admittedly cheating her ass off, but still wouldn't have been a threat to anyone else.
By the way, writing doesn't have rules. It has guidelines at best.
edited 4th Jan '18 9:32:09 PM by Arha

Would you expect Ribrianne to be beaten in any other way but with the power of love? Hell, the power of love isn't even seen as a "female" thing, since it was Krillin's love for her that did the trick, and the U2 boys got love transformations themselves in the very next episode.
Just because a character is weaker doesn't mean they mean less or had a worse performance. Roshi did better than Piccolo, but would lose in a fight against him.
edited 4th Jan '18 8:59:14 PM by PushoverMediaCritic