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Sigilbreaker26 Serial Procrastinator Since: Nov, 2017
Serial Procrastinator
#74351: Jan 4th 2018 at 2:35:10 PM

to be fair Black Clover is an exceptionally bad example of an anime

It ain't gonna win any awards as a manga either...

"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"
agent-trunks IHE from Every-where, but there Since: Apr, 2015
IHE
#74352: Jan 4th 2018 at 3:02:57 PM

I'd support a hiatus if the quality of the product went up. The animation has definitely improved, just need the writing to do so as well. Maybe I'm getting my hopes up too high.

It's really not going to get any better pal.

Most Valuable Player, Worst Performing Player, Most Underrated Player, Surprise Hit Player, & Most Wasted Player.

MVP: Do you mean who's the strongest in the TOP? Cuz that's Jiren hands down.

WPP: I know who it is in U7, but you can really that nearly the entire cast for TOP, did really bad.

MUP: I feel like that's Dyspo, since he hasn't eliminate anyone.

SHP: Roshi, I didn't he would do that well in TOP. Makes me bitter about Tien unfortunately.

MWP: Again, just the cast of TOP in general.

Jiren: I swore an OATH◊. That I would track down the killer and make him PAY WITH HIS LIFE. I WOULD USE MY OWN STAND AS A TOOL OF RIGHTEOUS VENGEANCE.

That might a JOJO reference, but I still miss Batman: The Brave and the Bold.

Watchinf Fusion's older videos, I never realized the Red Ribbon Army arc was so forgotten. Watching it on tv as a boy, I loved the shit out of it, especially watching Goku just go full on One-Man Army on them at the climax.

It's hard to forgot them when they reference in the Androids saga.

I like that scene where Goku unleashes a badass speech against Ice Shenron for daring to hurt his family.

That may not be what Toriyama had in mind but Goddamn do I love serious Goku. [tup]

I'm still never going get over how force it is on how they want emphasize Goku's flaw now. If there is any problem I have with Super it's that Goku comes across like a wannabe Luffy now. Talk about ironic. :/

But all the villains hurt Karrot's family in some way, so...

Yea, but Goku doesn't care apparently. At least according the '''real''' Goku fans.

randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#74353: Jan 4th 2018 at 3:08:04 PM

True Kakarrot fans wouldn't care if he didn't visibly care...

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
agent-trunks IHE from Every-where, but there Since: Apr, 2015
IHE
#74354: Jan 4th 2018 at 3:22:03 PM

[up]Damn that is a great point. Checkmate!

Arha Since: Jan, 2010
#74355: Jan 4th 2018 at 4:41:04 PM

iirc Chichi ignoring Goku was in the manga too.

Larfleeze Agent Orange Since: May, 2009
Agent Orange
#74356: Jan 4th 2018 at 4:41:22 PM

Oh Goku-Sama why is it that you are so flippant yet so desirable?

Do you know what people want the most? Something somebody else has.
GAP Formerly G.G. from Who Knows? Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: In love with love
Formerly G.G.
#74357: Jan 4th 2018 at 4:47:21 PM

Because Goku is an idiot hero and idiot heroes are almost always attractive. >_o

"Mai waifu."
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#74358: Jan 4th 2018 at 4:52:22 PM

Chi-chi's not exactly a genius herself, even if fan perception has given the impression otherwise.

One Strip! One Strip!
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#74359: Jan 4th 2018 at 4:53:46 PM

Well she is a bumpkin.

A king of the rednecks is still a redneck.

edited 4th Jan '18 4:57:13 PM by slimcoder

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Hobgoblin Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#74360: Jan 4th 2018 at 5:04:21 PM

She does, in fact, leave Goku broken on the ground and ignores him completely in favor of Gohan. What the anime changed (slightly) was Bulma's reaction to Yajirobe.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#74361: Jan 4th 2018 at 5:06:06 PM

[up] Alright then.

Goddamn it Chi-Chi. [tdown]

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Moth13 Since: Sep, 2010
#74362: Jan 4th 2018 at 6:11:11 PM

Hearts out to 18 who got the short end of the stick in her elimination.

...... Then again Piccolo & Tien's eliminations lacked dignity as well.

18 went out on her own terms and did it saving a teammate. That's about as dignified an elimination you can get.

Larfleeze Agent Orange Since: May, 2009
Agent Orange
#74363: Jan 4th 2018 at 7:41:01 PM

I still can’t get over how she bruised her ankle offscreen and it was treated like a legitimately crippling injury.

Do you know what people want the most? Something somebody else has.
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#74364: Jan 4th 2018 at 7:53:18 PM

Why? It was from an explosion or something and it made her later fights even more badass. I still don't agree with the idea that she had to be saved a ton. Aside from Freeza, all of the U7 fighters had to be saved at least once, and Goku and Gohan have each needed saving at least as much as 18 did. Like, there was complaining that 18 needed saving from being eaten by Anilaza, but no complaining that Goku needed saving from Anilaza punching him out of the arena in the very same episode.

edited 4th Jan '18 7:53:55 PM by PushoverMediaCritic

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#74365: Jan 4th 2018 at 7:54:50 PM

Goku is half dead (even if the plot refuses to remember that).

18 doesn't actually lose strength.

One Strip! One Strip!
EpicBleye drunk bunny from her bed being very eepy Since: Sep, 2014 Relationship Status: In Lesbians with you
drunk bunny
#74366: Jan 4th 2018 at 7:56:26 PM

Context matters when you consider the rampant sexism in the anime industry, especially in regards to female heroines.

That incident alone doesn't seem too bad until you remember that she is literally the only major female combatant in the series besides Kale and Caulifla- and we have two incidents of sexist writing when you look at whatserface being the target of a rape joke, and Ribrianne's whole shtick be that it's funny that she's fat.

"There's not a girl alive who wouldn't be happy being called cute." ~Tamamo-no-Mae
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#74367: Jan 4th 2018 at 7:58:36 PM

Also, Goku has had a lot more moments where he is able to do something without being saved, which is a huge difference.

When 18 was saved by 17, it did nothing to make her look good. It was done to make 17 look good.

When 18 saves 17, it comes at the cost of her participation and sets up 17 to look good again.

The ankle doesn't make her badass, it was there to set up 17 saving her, then 17 helping her, then mostly ignored so the cool moments she had didn't really reference it.

edited 4th Jan '18 7:59:36 PM by Saiga

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#74368: Jan 4th 2018 at 8:02:17 PM

Pretty much 18 got fucking screwed over. Don't even try to deny it.

I mean how come she was the only one to be almost eaten by Anilaza?

Seriously guy just stops that trick after only one try & it comes off as extremely pointless as a result with the only achievement being another damsel moment for 18.

edited 4th Jan '18 8:04:23 PM by slimcoder

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#74369: Jan 4th 2018 at 8:10:01 PM

17 is the team's Barrier Warrior, he uses that force field to protect everyone here. 17 and 18 taking down the Kamikaze Fireballs as a team does not do anything to make 18 look any worse. I think 18 sacrificing herself to save her stronger brother was a great moment for her, and any characters weaker than 18, like Krillin, would've done the same for her in a heartbeat.

Aside from that, the only time 17 saved 18 was against Katopesla, which she could've won and her wound had just happened.

18 also saved Goku from Tupper and Zoiray, Goku was saved from the U3 robots by Caulifla, etc. While the team compositions are clearly heavily weighted against women (as to be expected in Dragon Ball), needing to be saved isn't really something that holds much value as a complaint of sexism in the Tournament of Power.

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#74370: Jan 4th 2018 at 8:33:02 PM

Yes, it does. Because 18 still needs to be saved a disproportionate amount compared to the cool stuff she does, especially when compared to the saved/cool moments of the male characters

Saying she could win against Pepsiman is based on nothing and not what the scene portrayed. Even if it were true, that does nothing to defend the scene (in fact, having 18 be saved against opponents she should beat is even worse) or the intent behind it.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#74371: Jan 4th 2018 at 8:41:43 PM

The intent behind it was just that she was wounded and 17 decided to help his sister even when she didn't need it. Based on Vegeta's fight with Katopesla, she could've beaten him, 17 was just looking out for his twin sister.

There are two camps: those who think that Android 18 got screwed over and her performance has been terrible, or those who think that she, 17, and Roshi have been the surprise MVPs of the tournament. I'm in the latter camp. This arc showed 18 to be a fucking badass. One who falls and needs a hand sometimes, but one who also gets back up and continues fighting even when the odds are against her, like any true badass. 18 has had a better performance this arc than Vegeta, so far.

edited 4th Jan '18 8:44:47 PM by PushoverMediaCritic

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#74372: Jan 4th 2018 at 8:43:03 PM

MVP?

No way in Goddamn Hell was she MVP. She was adequate.

Now 17 is an MVP I can grant you that. He actually has impressive solo showings.

edited 4th Jan '18 8:44:03 PM by slimcoder

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#74373: Jan 4th 2018 at 8:47:24 PM

17's only solo victory were against Kakunsa and Vikal. Rosie was friendly fire, and Anilaza was a team effort. 18 did more to defeat Ribrianne than 17 did to defeat Anilaza. 18 also defeated Sorrel and Cocotte, and they beat Viarra together. I'd say their performances so far have been about equal.

edited 4th Jan '18 8:49:12 PM by PushoverMediaCritic

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#74374: Jan 4th 2018 at 8:48:48 PM

Yeah, she defeated Ribrianne with a cliched power of love bit that made no sense. And even then she needed 17's help getting that far.

edited 4th Jan '18 8:49:13 PM by LSBK

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#74375: Jan 4th 2018 at 8:53:30 PM

Ribrianne isn't equal to Aniraza at all, and people have criticisms with how that was handled due to using the power of love instead of just letting her win anyway

It's not just end results, as 17 has had a lot of focus and emphasis as a reliable heavy hitter in the scenes he has.

Also, assuming that 18 can beat Pepsiman based on Vegeta's fight is foolish with how all over the place Super's power levels are, especially when you yourself believe the Saiyans have multiple base states that can't be distinguished between. 18's scene was not framed as her not needing help, you're twisting things to bury the framing.

Edit: No way does she have a better performance than Vegeta, who has taken out multiple people and consistently been shown as being beyond most other participants, with him also fighting people WAY beyond 18.

edited 4th Jan '18 8:55:38 PM by Saiga


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