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Lionheart0 Since: Oct, 2009 Relationship Status: I'm just a hunk-a, hunk-a burnin' love
#74276: Jan 3rd 2018 at 11:32:00 AM

Naw it's cool, I'm just messing. tongue

But in general, Super has played fast and loose with "the character is as strong as the plot needs them to be."

So we get stuff like Android 18 being able to deflect a SSB Goku's kamehameha when in Z, she was forced to dodge a fully charged blast from SS Trunks to avoid getting hurt.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#74277: Jan 3rd 2018 at 11:39:07 AM

In terms of actual power level, I'd say that current 18 is around SS1 to SS3 levels of power, maybe stronger than Piccolo, maybe weaker, but around that level. Current 17 holds back to his sister's level most of the time, but his full power is between SSG and SSB, like Gohan, except slightly weaker than Gohan.

SonOfSharknado Love is Love is Love Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
GOI god of insanity from everywhere/nowhere Since: Jul, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
god of insanity
#74279: Jan 3rd 2018 at 12:07:21 PM

]Daizenshuu 4 sates her power was described to be suppressed compared to her brother. Plus since the androids don't tire 17 would of had more,time to train while 18 was spending time with krillin not training or looking after her daughter (this is worded horribly but hopefully my thoughts are clear)

The distance between insanity and genius is measured only by success. Insanity runs in my family. It practically gallops.
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#74280: Jan 3rd 2018 at 12:52:44 PM

The difference between 17 and 18 wasn't that large originally. Making it bigger is a terrible idea.

edited 3rd Jan '18 12:53:02 PM by Saiga

Sigilbreaker26 Serial Procrastinator Since: Nov, 2017
Serial Procrastinator
#74281: Jan 3rd 2018 at 1:09:50 PM

It was basically negligible.

"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"
BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#74282: Jan 3rd 2018 at 1:21:23 PM

Well 18 was even with SS Vegeta until he tired out, and 17 was dead even with Kamicollo who was stronger than every other Saiyan at the time.

Unfortunately, 18 acquired the housewife disease. It's known to cut your competency down, and in worse cases, alters your personality completely to something more "appropriate".

We gotta spread awareness.

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
Hobgoblin Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#74283: Jan 3rd 2018 at 1:21:58 PM

So, realistically speaking, what's the most satisfying way the Universe Survival Arc could end? Is there any way to continue the story without the Super Dragon Balls feeling like a cheap copout to the entire premise?

I think it'd be neat if it turned out Zeno or the Grand Priest could create as well as destroy given that the whole multiverse seems to be skewed very heavily in favor of destruction, and maybe Zeno learning some kind of lesson in morality leads to the reconstruction of the other universes. Then the wish is used to set up the conflict of the next arc, maybe?

BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#74284: Jan 3rd 2018 at 1:40:19 PM

Well the series might be going on hiatus after this arc is over. Another show is taking over it's time slot.

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#74285: Jan 3rd 2018 at 1:42:08 PM

[up]

Perhaps Toriyama hasn't written anymore past this part?

The difference between 17 and 18 wasn't that large originally.

Was it ever really stated how big of a difference it was.

Also, I don't think 18 was actually even with Vegeta. She was basically screwing with him the whole time.

At least I think she was. I'm not 100% sure.

One Strip! One Strip!
Larfleeze Agent Orange Since: May, 2009
Agent Orange
#74286: Jan 3rd 2018 at 2:16:38 PM

She beat the shit out of Vegeta and Trunks with zero effort. All he managed to do was mess up her clothes. She was toying with him the whole time.

Do you know what people want the most? Something somebody else has.
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#74287: Jan 3rd 2018 at 2:23:24 PM

[up] That's not true, she waited until his power dropped before beating him up.

She was stronger than Vegeta, but the lead wasn't huge as his stamina problems were a key part of why he lost. Vegeta was also the strongest of the Saiyans at this point.

17 as mentioned is equal with Piccolo.

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#74288: Jan 3rd 2018 at 2:39:42 PM

I see.

So 18 power is slightly stronger than early Cell Saga Super Saiyan Vegeta while 17's power is equal with post Nameless Namek Piccolo.

And considering that Nameless is infinitely stronger than any super saiyan, that says a lot.

One Strip! One Strip!
Sigilbreaker26 Serial Procrastinator Since: Nov, 2017
Serial Procrastinator
#74289: Jan 3rd 2018 at 2:40:57 PM

It's not infinitely stronger, it's moderately stronger. Like, there is a noticable difference, but NN is weaker than the various mastered Super Saiyan forms. (I'm pretty sure)

"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"
Hobgoblin Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#74290: Jan 3rd 2018 at 2:43:04 PM

Considering that Nameless Namekian got beaten by Imperfect Cell and Vegeta hopped out with a slightly upgraded Super Saiyan and beat up Semi-Perfect Cell, that's canon, yes.

BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#74291: Jan 3rd 2018 at 2:48:23 PM

Yea, he's stronger than an untrained SSJ 1.

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#74292: Jan 3rd 2018 at 2:51:03 PM

Yeah, moderately stronger is a better fit. Remember that NN Piccolo is initially weaker than 16 as well (who was tied with powered up first form Cell).

Sigilbreaker26 Serial Procrastinator Since: Nov, 2017
Serial Procrastinator
#74293: Jan 3rd 2018 at 2:53:28 PM

One thing I like about the Cell Arc is that most of the characters tend to be really close in power throughout rather than with giant, giant gaps between everyone like in the Namek Arc.

"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"
RJ-19-CLOVIS-93 from New Zealand (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#74294: Jan 3rd 2018 at 3:20:01 PM

It would a nice call-back to the first multiversal tournament if it turns out Zen'o has a dad who's the actual creator of the universes and he arrives at the end to chastise Zeno heavily for being so irresponsible. Zeno doesn't seem smart enough to be the capital G god of Dragonball. Yeah, I know about the Toribot, but I'm talking in-universe and non-gag wise. If they let gags in they would have had Arale be the 10th team mate, however serious storylines are the kryptonite of toonforce and gag manga powers

edited 3rd Jan '18 3:20:57 PM by RJ-19-CLOVIS-93

Hobgoblin Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#74295: Jan 3rd 2018 at 3:38:57 PM

There being a higher power than Zeno would be weird unless they exist outside of the multiverse. Future Zeno would undoubtedly have erased any other being from his timeline.

XMenMutant22 The Feline Follies of Felix the Cat Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: Hoping Senpai notices me
#74296: Jan 3rd 2018 at 3:39:47 PM

Information about a possible hiatus (because Yakuzu brought it up): The series GeGeGe no Kitarō is about to have a Toei-funded project just in time for its 50th anniversary of the first anime (coincidentally enough, Masako Nozawa voiced Kitaro in that series).

Some people are speculating that Super might go on hiatus for three factors:

  1. Toei's attached, which means that their resources will be stretched to accommodate.
  2. The last Kitaro adaptation, from 2007-09, used to run on Super's current timeslot on FujiTv. (However, FujiTV's copyright is absent from the announcement at the moment, and according to Herms' translation, the announcement solely talked about the original, which aired on Wednesdays).
  3. The upcoming Saiyan origin story movie debuting in December 2018, and the current arc's ending in March.

Personally, I disregarded it because it's just speculation.

edited 3rd Jan '18 3:41:42 PM by XMenMutant22

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#74297: Jan 3rd 2018 at 4:19:35 PM

Is the part about another show taking the timeslot confirmed?

hardcorefakes coolest_guy from probably America Since: Oct, 2015 Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
coolest_guy
#74298: Jan 3rd 2018 at 4:21:59 PM

I don't know if any of those points can correlate to a hiatus though. Not when DBS is making them so much money through merchandising. If there is a hiatus, it won't be long.

[down]I am now hardcoreflakes

edited 3rd Jan '18 4:29:33 PM by hardcorefakes

XMenMutant22 The Feline Follies of Felix the Cat Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: Hoping Senpai notices me
#74299: Jan 3rd 2018 at 4:24:27 PM

[up]x2: Nope, just speculation at the moment. The show in question, GeGeGe no Kitarō, doesn't have a channel or timeslot locked down yet, and could very well follow the web series format of Sailor Moon Crystal, which was also an anniversary focused project.

I mean, I wouldn't mind a hiatus for production sake (did wonders for Pokemon Sun And Moon), but I agree with hardcoreflakes on this one.

[up]Pffft, I swear that was an accident, cerea-iously.[lol]

edited 3rd Jan '18 4:49:43 PM by XMenMutant22

hardcorefakes coolest_guy from probably America Since: Oct, 2015 Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
coolest_guy
#74300: Jan 3rd 2018 at 5:38:32 PM

I'd support a hiatus if the quality of the product went up. The animation has definitely improved, just need the writing to do so as well. Maybe I'm getting my hopes up too high.


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