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PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#74251: Jan 3rd 2018 at 3:11:49 AM

If SS2 didn't exist, you can bet your ass that I'd be wondering why the characters didn't just use SS1G3 for big ki blasts, like Roshi does. It may have been replaced by Grade 4, but it was made obsolete by SS2, which is better than it in every way.

And yeah, SSG to SSB is a better way of handling that concept, since the point of using it is to avoid SSB's preexisting stamina issues.

One thing the manga does that annoys me is MSSB. In the Future Trunks arc, it sounds like it's just SSB, but at full power all the time. When Vegeta uses it against Beerus, however, it's after he's already tired himself out a bit using SSB and using it gives him a massive power boost, more power than when his SSB was fresh. So is MSSB actually a separate transformation? Going by AF, I wouldn't put it past Toyotarou to write a stronger transformation that is just a mastered version of the previous form.

edited 3rd Jan '18 3:12:54 AM by PushoverMediaCritic

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#74252: Jan 3rd 2018 at 3:23:41 AM

So you're wondering why Goku didn't use it in his fight with Cell? Because clearly it was obsolete for him to not use it at all there.

Goku's already capable of launching KHH's with enough power to blow off half of Cell's body, but doing so is incredibly draining for him. Grade III is even more draining than that. Also, we never got any indication that they could just flip it on and off like a switch.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#74253: Jan 3rd 2018 at 3:32:56 AM

You answered your own question. Goku didn't use it then because he didn't need to use it to fuck up Cell's life.

You know, I'm surprised at how much new shit has happened during the course of the Tournament of Power. I was expecting only like 4 or 5 new transformations and most of the competitors would just stay as they are, but there have been about 28 new characters and/or transformations and/or transformations for new characters just during the course of the tournament alone, with a possible 29 and 30th on the horizon what with Hakaishin Toppo and a possible Ultra Instinct for Vegeta.

edited 3rd Jan '18 3:41:58 AM by PushoverMediaCritic

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#74254: Jan 3rd 2018 at 3:41:10 AM

Yes, I presented a question and then answered it in order to respond to your claim. They didn't need G 3 anymore as they're perfectly capable of using big energy blasts that are already draining enough without using such an energy inefficient form.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#74255: Jan 3rd 2018 at 3:46:55 AM

Well, yeah now that they have Super Saiyan 2 and up. Logically, though, if they're banking on one giant ki blast to do the job, Super Saiyan 1 isn't enough, and they don't have SS2 or up, Grade 3 would give them just the little boost they would need. Again, it's what Roshi does. He saves his buff state for when he needs to do big Kamehamehas or put a bit more power in his physical attacks. Trunks would've benefitted greatly from training under him. Then he wouldn't have made such an amateurish mistake.

edited 3rd Jan '18 3:49:06 AM by PushoverMediaCritic

Ikedatakeshi Baby dango from singapore Since: Nov, 2015 Relationship Status: Singularity
Baby dango
#74256: Jan 3rd 2018 at 3:48:40 AM

You're assuming that both forms works the same.

edited 3rd Jan '18 3:49:19 AM by Ikedatakeshi

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#74257: Jan 3rd 2018 at 3:50:44 AM

I see no reason not to. Cell can do it too. I'm guessing that buffing yourself up dramatically is just something anyone with enough ki control can do, and they just decided to give a name to the Super Saiyan version of it.

Sigilbreaker26 Serial Procrastinator Since: Nov, 2017
Serial Procrastinator
#74258: Jan 3rd 2018 at 3:51:41 AM

I agree, logically, if it's their last shot, they should switch into G3 if they don't have SSJ 2.

"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#74259: Jan 3rd 2018 at 3:51:55 AM

Roshi didn't use Grade III, it's not the same thing at all and we shouldn't apply the same standards based off that. Besides, Roshi stopped using his buff appearance in the manga anyway.

Goku outright says they don't need Grade III, and it's a bad idea, before 2 was a thing. 2 really has nothing to do with it. And we've seen Goku can put enough power in one blast to blow his load, so he doesn't need to stack another transformation on top of that. Transforming is used for prolonged fights, which Grade III is completely useless in.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#74260: Jan 3rd 2018 at 3:57:25 AM

Do you have any evidence that it's not the same phenomenon or are you insisting that it isn't just because?

And yeah, Goku says that it's bad because it doesn't work for prolonged fights, which it doesn't, but that's not what I'm talking about here. I'm talking about using it like a Kaioken, or like Roshi does, bursting into it right before firing a Kamehameha designed to end the fight. And yeah, they could use it quickly, as Cell showed.

edited 3rd Jan '18 3:58:02 AM by PushoverMediaCritic

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#74261: Jan 3rd 2018 at 4:00:32 AM

That's not how burden of proof works. They weren't connected by the manga and one is identified as a Super Saiyan transformation. Prove they're connected. What I am saying is that I am not making the assumption that they are the same

You're talking about using it in a way that we haven't seen it be possible. It's not the Kaio-ken. Also, Roshi doesn't use it the way you describe either for what it's worth. He only used it when firing a KHH to destroy large areas.

edited 3rd Jan '18 4:01:48 AM by Saiga

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#74262: Jan 3rd 2018 at 4:16:26 AM

Roshi has used his buff form in Super: to hold a position and one-shot mooks, to beat up Goku and Tenshinhan while possessed, to intimidate Caway, to pump more energy into his Kamehameha to defeat Ganos, and to push back Frost with a surprise attack, Sounds pretty similar to what I'm suggesting and like a smart way to use Grade 3, especially how he used it against Ganos.

Also, how does "Roshi buffs up to fire giant Kamehamehas meant to destroy large objects" not sound similar to "buff up to fire giant blasts meant to finish off opponents"? Either way, you're using the buff state to fire a blast more powerful than you'd be capable of achieving without it.

edited 3rd Jan '18 4:17:11 AM by PushoverMediaCritic

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#74263: Jan 3rd 2018 at 4:21:24 AM

I was talking about the manga, we all know Super does things differently. And no, actually, blasting large objects sounds much different to using it in a fight against your opponent.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#74264: Jan 3rd 2018 at 4:30:17 AM

... well? You wanna explain how?

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#74265: Jan 3rd 2018 at 4:33:30 AM

Objects can't dodge or fight back. It's an entirely different problem to solve, and Roshi has never used it as a tactic in a fight which doesn't lead me to believe it's meant as a valid strategy.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#74266: Jan 3rd 2018 at 4:43:37 AM

He's never tried to finish off an opponent with a Kamehameha before Super, and he'd never really been in a position where that would be needed. Don't see why a buff Kamehameha would be easier to dodge than a normal Kamehameha, either.

Frankly, Roshi's uses of his buff state are 5 out of 7 times from Super, so I'm not really interested in having a discussion about it if you're ignoring most of the times it was used.

edited 3rd Jan '18 4:45:24 AM by PushoverMediaCritic

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#74267: Jan 3rd 2018 at 4:47:39 AM

He's used the KHH in plenty of fights when things get serious, deciding what he considers a finisher or not seems pretty arbitrary.

But the fact that he doesn't use the KHH as a finisher doesn't seem like much of an argument to him using the KHH as a finisher.

If Super is your only defense, I already pointed out that Super's running on its own logic. And this is originally about Grade III, which predates Super by a looooong time which is why I'm not taking it into consideration.

Super has him use the form to fight in for melee as well so it doesn't even support the point you were making.

edited 3rd Jan '18 4:48:16 AM by Saiga

XMenMutant22 The Feline Follies of Felix the Cat Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: Hoping Senpai notices me
#74268: Jan 3rd 2018 at 8:56:23 AM

The official Super twitter claims that they're going to be releasing new ep.122 shots leading until Saturday, which includes some generally crisp head shots of Freeza, Toppo, Gohan, and pudding-seeking Beerus Dyspo.


Geekdom101 managed to set-up an interview with the former Bruce Faulconer Productions crew to reminisce about their days doing the American soundtrack for the original Z dub and tie-in games.

     Fair waring: 51 minutes in length 

edited 3rd Jan '18 8:57:16 AM by XMenMutant22

Rinsankajugin Since: Feb, 2012
#74269: Jan 3rd 2018 at 9:58:15 AM

[up] Man this episode is looking better and better! And DAYMN Dyspo, looking all smug and stuff...

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#74270: Jan 3rd 2018 at 10:44:54 AM

You know, I never would've thought of it, but I really like the direction of having Dyspo take the advantage vs Freeza in their fight. Most people predicted that Freeza would beat Dyspo easily, and given Dyspo's track record it didn't seem unlikely. Dyspo outright having the advantage, though, is a good way to handle it. Have none of the final three Pride Troopers go down easy.

edited 3rd Jan '18 10:45:18 AM by PushoverMediaCritic

EpicBleye drunk bunny from her bed being very eepy Since: Sep, 2014 Relationship Status: In Lesbians with you
drunk bunny
#74271: Jan 3rd 2018 at 11:19:39 AM

i figured out how 17 and 18 are suddenly at SSB level

they have those infinite ki generators right? well they've been generating ki for years now, and neither one of them have been using it much if at all. so it's all just stored up giving them immense strength

this is also somewhat consistent with Z since we know 17 and 18 of the main timeline are stronger than in the future timeline due to being woken up later- and thus had more ki generated than their future counterparts

I'm half serious

"There's not a girl alive who wouldn't be happy being called cute." ~Tamamo-no-Mae
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#74272: Jan 3rd 2018 at 11:23:34 AM

That was actually what we originally heard and theorized when 17 being much stronger was first revealed, but then the episode proper came out and revealed it was due to training. I mean, maybe it could be a mixture of both: infinite energy and light training with Krillin is how 18 is stronger and infinite energy and constantly fighting poachers on a monster island is how 17 is even stronger than that.

Shlugo_the_great King of Burgers from Far Far Away (On A Trope Odyssey) Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
King of Burgers
#74273: Jan 3rd 2018 at 11:24:19 AM

Well, Jiren straight up said that aside from Goku and Hit, Toppo and Dyspo can deal with everyone else in the tournament without him, so this should really not come as a surprise. But that went against a lot of folks head cannons, so they immiedietly sprung up with lame excuses like "Jiren didn't mean what he said" or "Jiren has no idea what he's talking about".

Lionheart0 Since: Oct, 2009 Relationship Status: I'm just a hunk-a, hunk-a burnin' love
#74274: Jan 3rd 2018 at 11:24:37 AM

[up][up][up]

edited 3rd Jan '18 11:24:49 AM by Lionheart0

EpicBleye drunk bunny from her bed being very eepy Since: Sep, 2014 Relationship Status: In Lesbians with you
drunk bunny
#74275: Jan 3rd 2018 at 11:27:13 AM

dang this is what i get for not watching super or keeping up with everything til now

"There's not a girl alive who wouldn't be happy being called cute." ~Tamamo-no-Mae

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