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Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#74226: Jan 3rd 2018 at 12:32:36 AM

[up][up][up] I don't agree with that assumption, as that makes even less sense as a strategy to divide your power further when you've got your opponent pinned like that. I think it was meant more as 'when did they he sneak up on me' because Tenshinhan creating more clones off-screen without that ever being mentioned in the fraction he was off-screen seems incredibly unlikely especially when he never re-grouped with the original set of clones and we haven't seen him do that before.

And the eyes not looking in different directions just means the entire thing was pointless. That's more than just direction and choreography, that completely changes the meaning of using them. Having them go in different directions would be a huge change of the entire sequence, though it still doesn't justify splitting as pointed out with his reflexes and weakening himself.

edited 3rd Jan '18 12:34:02 AM by Saiga

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#74227: Jan 3rd 2018 at 12:36:13 AM

Has regrouping with the clones always been necessary? I was under the impression that their power went back to the others when they died or were dispelled. Either way, it was only used one time in the manga anyways, the rules for how it works could've changed in the time between then and now. Tenshinhan might've improved the technique in small ways.

edited 3rd Jan '18 12:40:41 AM by PushoverMediaCritic

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#74228: Jan 3rd 2018 at 12:45:35 AM

They've always been portrayed as re-grouping, so that's a safer assumption than thinking Tenshinhan is now using the technique in a different way and did so off-screen without explanation. Especially giving that they have all of his bodies fall off together.

hardcorefakes coolest_guy from probably America Since: Oct, 2015 Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
coolest_guy
#74229: Jan 3rd 2018 at 12:51:58 AM

Tien's clone technique would be better if it worked like Naruto's shadow clones.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#74230: Jan 3rd 2018 at 1:06:29 AM

I'd probably rewrite the scene so that Tenshinhan has evolved the Multiform into the Super Multiform, which now only decreases his power by 10% compounded for each additional clone, with the downside being that it drains stamina to keep up, similar to a transformation. The Multiform is too classic and cool of a concept to be relegated to a move that is conceptually useless.

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#74231: Jan 3rd 2018 at 1:08:04 AM

Classic my ass, it was used once and introduced AS a technique that was too flawed to be useful. It can easily be left as a one-off technique, and Ten doesn't need any new ones anyway.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#74232: Jan 3rd 2018 at 1:09:35 AM

I linked the Trope for a reason. I wasn't saying that the Multiform is classic, but the Trope of Self-Duplication certainly is.

edited 3rd Jan '18 1:10:26 AM by PushoverMediaCritic

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#74233: Jan 3rd 2018 at 1:12:12 AM

Eh, doesn't mean DB needs to make it a prominent thing. It's already done its version(s) of self duplication and that's fine.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#74234: Jan 3rd 2018 at 1:15:33 AM

Tenshinhan's using it anyway, so why not? It wouldn't be any more prominent than it already is.

edited 3rd Jan '18 1:16:11 AM by PushoverMediaCritic

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#74235: Jan 3rd 2018 at 1:18:16 AM

Because the alternative is for Tenshinhan not to use it anymore. Don't present it like a false dichotomy, if there is an option to completely rehaul the technique than just leaving it retired is also an option.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#74236: Jan 3rd 2018 at 1:30:37 AM

Well, yeah, but I like the technique and I want to see it used. I like that Tenshinhan's using it, and I'd rather he use a good version over the current one which is near-useless.

SonOfSharknado Love is Love is Love Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Love is Love is Love
#74237: Jan 3rd 2018 at 1:39:31 AM

But it's an objectively worthless technique. It's only good against a person a fourth your strength, in which case, why make copies??

My various fanfics.
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#74238: Jan 3rd 2018 at 1:50:33 AM

Yo, I JUST SAID that I'd have Tenshinhan develop a Super Multiform that makes each clone only 10% weaker compounded. That was the 'good version' I was referring to.

edited 3rd Jan '18 1:51:23 AM by PushoverMediaCritic

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#74239: Jan 3rd 2018 at 1:51:10 AM

But he didn't so that argument is null.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
SonOfSharknado Love is Love is Love Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Love is Love is Love
#74240: Jan 3rd 2018 at 1:51:37 AM

Okay, but that's not how math works. I mean, I guess if each clone did the Kaiouken?

My various fanfics.
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#74241: Jan 3rd 2018 at 1:52:52 AM

[up][up]It's not even that argument anymore! I'm not even arguing anything!

[up]I think it works out fine. Tenshinhan: 200, Two Tenshinhan: 180, Three Tenshinhan: 162, and so on. The Super Multiform would also have the downside that it drains stamina.

edited 3rd Jan '18 1:55:19 AM by PushoverMediaCritic

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#74242: Jan 3rd 2018 at 1:53:38 AM

[up][up][up][up] At that point it loses the most interesting part of the original. I prefer it as a flawed technique that gets set aside, like Super Saiyan Grade III.

edited 3rd Jan '18 1:53:44 AM by Saiga

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#74243: Jan 3rd 2018 at 1:54:09 AM

Alright its a wasted idea then.

Concept could have been good if executed well but they bungled it.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#74244: Jan 3rd 2018 at 1:56:00 AM

Bungled it? Yes, if they intended the technique to be useful. But if you think that, you're missing the point - it was introduced as a flawed technique.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#74245: Jan 3rd 2018 at 1:57:09 AM

[up]Okay, then have him develop a completely separate Self-Duplication move that is better than the Multiform, like Super Saiyan Grade 4. Or just have a Super Multiform, like Super Saiyan 2.

edited 3rd Jan '18 1:58:10 AM by PushoverMediaCritic

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#74246: Jan 3rd 2018 at 1:57:48 AM

[up][up] Eh I'm mostly talking about the general battle.

The technique is irrelevant.

edited 3rd Jan '18 1:58:04 AM by slimcoder

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#74247: Jan 3rd 2018 at 2:03:33 AM

Grade 3 works because it was replaced by something better in every way. Just like how the Multiform would work better if it was replaced by or inproved into a version that worked better. Otherwise, it's just a waste of a classic trope.

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#74248: Jan 3rd 2018 at 2:25:38 AM

Full Power Super Saiyan is nothing like Grade III. It's literally going back to what they had before and improving it.

Which is exactly what Ten did - went back to single form and continued training.

There's no such thing as a 'waste' of a classic trope. DB had its version, and it had its own spin on it which is way more important than giving representation to a trope because it exists.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#74249: Jan 3rd 2018 at 2:39:33 AM

It was replaced by Super Saiyan 2, which provides more speed, power, endurance, and stamina than Grade 3.

I just want a better Multiform because I personally like Self-Duplication and I'd like to see it used better in Dragon Ball. This is just my opinion, and it's just how I'd rewrite Tenshinhan vs Harmila.

Doing some research on AF, did you know that the chapter with the Vegeta form changing stuff was never finished and was the last chapter before AF was cancelled? Did you also know that the Vegeta form changing stuff is dumb as bricks? In it, Vegeta transforms into a stronger version of Super Saiyan 4 which apparently specializes in ki blasts and defense, a stronger version of Super Saiyan 3 which apparently specializes in speed, and Legendary Super Saiyan which is apparently a stronger version of Ultra Super Saiyan which apparently specializes in power over speed. These three forms are all supposedly equal in general power level.

It's also framed almost exactly the same as in the Super manga, with Trunks, Krillin, and Xicor being replaced with Goku, Trunks, and Black respectively.

edited 3rd Jan '18 2:49:21 AM by PushoverMediaCritic

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#74250: Jan 3rd 2018 at 2:50:55 AM

No, it was replaced by FPSS. Goku didn't even know of 2 when he decided to abandon Grade III.

Liking Self-Duplication is one thing but calling it a waste of a trope still seems really silly since no trope is obligated to be used.

And yeah, I was aware of the AF thing. Sounds similar to your Multi Form idea, changing the technique(s) to be useful by giving them new, different properties. DBM also did something similar with Grade III and I didn't like that either. When it was adapted into God-Blue it was handled better.

edited 3rd Jan '18 2:51:44 AM by Saiga


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