TVTropes Now available in the app store!
Open

Follow TV Tropes

Following

Dragon Ball

Go To

agent-trunks IHE from Every-where, but there Since: Apr, 2015
IHE
#74201: Jan 2nd 2018 at 9:57:40 PM

Is there still no full version of the Ultra Instinct song?

Cause that's a nice damn song, and I went to be able to rock out to it.

Probably not for months from now.

edited 2nd Jan '18 9:58:04 PM by agent-trunks

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#74202: Jan 2nd 2018 at 9:59:39 PM

Just because you like it doesn't mean people are wrong to compare it to the original.

I'm aware that Super doesn't stick to Z's logic. Knowing that doesn't change that it doesn't make sense with the material that came before it.

A better defence would be to just say it doesn't need to make sense for you to enjoy it. Not to say 'nothing's wrong' and call people wrong for disagreeing.

[up][up] Logically, Ten would cover 4x the difference and therefore avoid being one-shot.

edited 2nd Jan '18 10:00:50 PM by Saiga

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#74203: Jan 2nd 2018 at 10:01:57 PM

I mean, Super wouldn't exist without the original so comparisons are apt, and it is very easy to say the changes in logic (and characterization) have been to the detriment of the franchise.

If you want to argue they aren't or have improved things, okay, but saying we shouldn't be making the comparisons and frankly throwing temper tantrums whenever anyone does isn't going to help anything.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#74204: Jan 2nd 2018 at 10:02:54 PM

I will call the show out when it does something wrong or doesn't even follow its own logic, like when SSG came back with no explanation, probably because Toriyama wrote it into the outline and insisted they add it in. This is not one of those instances.

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#74205: Jan 2nd 2018 at 10:07:55 PM

Yes it is. They mention the multiform weakness, so logically the way it is used doesnt make sense with that weakness.

Not only that, but there are plenty of people way faster than Ten even if you accept that he'd now be on base Goku's level even tho that was never established and he got easily bodied by base Gohan.

This whole 'cant make it in time' just doesnt make sense using normal logic. Making it in time is about how much distance you can cover, and how quickly, compared to how many shots the sniper gets to take in that time. If you travel 4x faster, the sniper only gets 1/4 of the shots.

Ergo, the multiform doesnt help (gives 4 chances at the cost of giving the sniper 4x the shots) and anyone faster than Ten can do the job better

edited 2nd Jan '18 10:10:34 PM by Saiga

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#74206: Jan 2nd 2018 at 10:08:01 PM

I mean, ignoring not being consistent with the original material, we regularly complain about Super not even being consistent with itself as well, and you usually defend that too.

Ikedatakeshi Baby dango from singapore Since: Nov, 2015 Relationship Status: Singularity
Baby dango
#74207: Jan 2nd 2018 at 10:12:19 PM

I don't know how is one suppose to separate Super and Z when the former is supposedly the continuation of the latter.

LordVatek Not really a lord of anything Since: Sep, 2014
Not really a lord of anything
#74208: Jan 2nd 2018 at 10:16:49 PM

GT was the continuation of Z too.

"Canon" is a nebulous concept.

This song needs more love.
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#74209: Jan 2nd 2018 at 10:17:07 PM

Super is literally a direct sequel.

Well not necessarily direct because it doesn't take place after End of Z but still its a direct sequel.

[up] And people complained about the power inconsistencies there too.

edited 2nd Jan '18 10:17:40 PM by slimcoder

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#74210: Jan 2nd 2018 at 10:24:35 PM

If you travel 4x faster, the sniper only gets 1/4 of the shots.

Uhh, genius. Even at 3 shots, that still rounds up to 1 shot. Harmila would've only needed 1 shot.

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#74211: Jan 2nd 2018 at 10:29:58 PM

Instead of sarcastically calling somone a genius to imply stupidity, maybe reconsider how you'd round something like that.

If the sniper can't get 4 shots off against 1/4 of Tenshinhan, logically he wouldn't get the first shot off against the full thing

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#74212: Jan 2nd 2018 at 10:31:49 PM

A sniper duel would have been cool especially since Tien likes do that telescopic thing whenever he does the Tri-Beam.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#74213: Jan 2nd 2018 at 10:46:09 PM

Let's say that Harmila takes 1 second in Freeza time to recharge. 4 Tenshinhans, each worth 1/4 of a whole Tenshinhan, were able to reach Harmila's location in 3 shots. This extrapolates to nothing relevant because Harmila had a shot ready when he first saw Tenshinhan.

Actually, rewatching the episode, Tenshinhan's Multiform also served a dual-purpose of giving him enough eyes to track Harmila's constantly changing position. That's actually the main reason he used it.

edited 2nd Jan '18 10:47:04 PM by PushoverMediaCritic

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#74214: Jan 2nd 2018 at 10:51:38 PM

Having 4x the reflexes works just as well for tracking a changing position though.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#74215: Jan 2nd 2018 at 10:56:35 PM

Nah, having 4 times the number of eyes allows him to look at 4 times the number of places Harmila could be going.

edited 2nd Jan '18 10:57:12 PM by PushoverMediaCritic

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#74216: Jan 2nd 2018 at 11:35:06 PM

But he could just track Hermila's movements better if he had better reflexes to begin with, since he could already see Hermila. And not have a bunch of extra penalties for being split into four bodies.

Just rewatched the episode. The extra eyes are bullshit, because all his clones look in the same direction!

edit: As for Hermila already having a shot ready, that's why you wait until he makes a shot before you approach. The fact that Ten immediately started approaching without that isn't strategic at all.

edited 2nd Jan '18 11:38:06 PM by Saiga

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#74217: Jan 2nd 2018 at 11:37:24 PM

I might have been able to think the splitting into four would be sensible if they all took a different path to the guy or something, but as far as I remember they all bee-lined it for him. I think one might have acted as a shield for another one or something, but that alone doesn't justify using the technique to me.

edited 2nd Jan '18 11:37:44 PM by LSBK

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#74218: Jan 2nd 2018 at 11:39:29 PM

Yeah, they beeline towards him after seeing him. And the last one does jump in the way of the attack, the first two are just lucky to be hit instead of the real body.

Though really, the one that jumped in front of the real body should have done nothing. If the attack is so powerful no-one can defend it, it should have gone right through the clone and taken out Ten anyway.

hardcorefakes coolest_guy from probably America Since: Oct, 2015 Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
coolest_guy
#74219: Jan 2nd 2018 at 11:44:24 PM

Nah, having 4 times the number of eyes allows him to look at 4 times the number of places Harmila could be going.

Well, what good would having 4 times the number of eyes do you if you now have 1/4th the reflexes? Seeing your opponent better means nothing if it's a net loss for your abilities overall anyway....

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#74220: Jan 2nd 2018 at 11:49:04 PM

Alright then, with all the evidence lined up its quite clear that the episode & the entire situation ranging from Tien's entire...... "plan" to the actual fight is complete shit.

Any more input?

If not then meeting adjourned on this particular topic (gavel slam).

edited 2nd Jan '18 11:49:44 PM by slimcoder

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#74221: Jan 2nd 2018 at 11:49:45 PM

Wait a minute. Ten's clones swarm Hermila at the end... meaning he stayed split the whole time.

Meaning he 'defeated' Hermila at 1/4 power... and the clones swarming Hermila means that 1/4 of Tenshinhan's power CAN take one of those hits and keep going

The whole thing is bullshit. This guy isn't a threat to 1/4 of Ten's power, let alone the full deal, let alone the other characters there.

edited 2nd Jan '18 11:50:19 PM by Saiga

hardcorefakes coolest_guy from probably America Since: Oct, 2015 Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
coolest_guy
#74222: Jan 2nd 2018 at 11:52:13 PM

But the narrative treated it as such.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#74223: Jan 3rd 2018 at 12:24:12 AM

Well, Harmila asks "when did he?", so presumably Tenshinhan made three more clones while Harmila wasn't looking right after the Kikoho. Any problems with the specific details of Tenshinhan's plan: all the clones looking in the same direction and all the Tenshinhans running straight forward in the same direction, can be chalked up to the Director, Storyboarder, and Writer of the episode, which I've already said were bad. The basic plot of the episode was fine, it was the team working on it who failed to produce a compelling and exciting narrative around it.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#74224: Jan 3rd 2018 at 12:29:10 AM

So they fucked up on everything then.

....... Huh

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Ikedatakeshi Baby dango from singapore Since: Nov, 2015 Relationship Status: Singularity
Baby dango
#74225: Jan 3rd 2018 at 12:31:32 AM

I'm pretty sure he means when did the clones sneak up on him. Considering that it would make Tien even weaker, it would make him look even more dumb if we go by your explanation.


Total posts: 130,800
Top