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HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#74176: Jan 2nd 2018 at 9:07:59 PM

Who cares.

He got two good fights against Goku, he got to at least try to go out fighting in the Saiyan saga, as opposed to Yamcha and Chiaotzu, who just went out, and he actually managed to slow down Cell when by all rights, anything he could have done would have been the equivalent of breathing on the guy.

When I really think about it, Tien's had a pretty good run considering he's in the I don't care about these guys trio.

As for Roshi...he shouldn't be there, but I've still enjoyed what we've gotten out of him, mostly because I'm legitimately impressed that he really overcame his perversion for the sake of the universe.

...outside of that one scene where he scared a female fighter out of the via implied rape joke, and I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt that he wasn't actually thinking along those lines for a change (cause I actually think it would be funnier if he wasn't trying to be pervy and ended up coming off like that anyway).

One Strip! One Strip!
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#74177: Jan 2nd 2018 at 9:09:58 PM

That's not giving the benefit of the doubt, that's rewriting the scene

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#74178: Jan 2nd 2018 at 9:11:53 PM

Harmila's shtick was that he was a sniper. Weak physically, but his ki blasts were described as similar to the Makankosappo in that they are incredibly powerful and narrow laser beams designed to punch holes in enemies. His blasts probably hit WAY harder than he does. Tenshinhan being capable of beating him made perfect sense, given who Harmila is and how he functions. It's just the presentation within the episode that needed work, same as with U4's final episode.

edited 2nd Jan '18 9:14:54 PM by PushoverMediaCritic

randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#74179: Jan 2nd 2018 at 9:13:27 PM

Krillin did a lot of stupid arrogant stuff when he first showed up...

I was saying Kriller was arrogant before he got "stronger" as opposed to literally every other character who were arrogant because they were stronger.

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#74180: Jan 2nd 2018 at 9:13:55 PM

[up][up][up][up] A good amount of people do apparently.

Not my fault that people are complaning & whining. I'm just making a joke outta it. tongue

edited 2nd Jan '18 9:14:15 PM by slimcoder

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#74181: Jan 2nd 2018 at 9:15:13 PM

[up][up][up][up]

I really wish they hadn't done that. Like I said, for someone who has no business being there, Roshi actually entertained me pretty well during his time in the tournament.

I'm gonna fall back to plan b: forget that scene ever happened so I can keep enjoying how well he did (while being fully aware of how dumb it is for him to even be there).

edited 2nd Jan '18 9:15:45 PM by HandsomeRob

One Strip! One Strip!
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#74182: Jan 2nd 2018 at 9:18:46 PM

@Pushover The Makankosappo was never a Ten-Goku kind of difference bridger though, so no, it doesn't make any sense.

Even if the blasts were strong enough, the overall character wasn't. The multi form makes no sense there, and Ten has nothing that makes him better at dealing with it than the other characters.

Anything Ten can deal with isn't a credible threat to the others.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#74183: Jan 2nd 2018 at 9:23:57 PM

Alright since we're discussing character performances I gotta ask how was 18's overall?

Cause I read a section in the moment of awesome page that outright says she did amazingly but I can't help but feel that's overpraising what she actually did especially since it's compared to Roshi's performance.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
hardcorefakes coolest_guy from probably America Since: Oct, 2015 Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
coolest_guy
#74184: Jan 2nd 2018 at 9:28:25 PM

She did do amazing, way better than I was expecting. She, along with 17, were wanked a little bit in some episodes.

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#74185: Jan 2nd 2018 at 9:29:12 PM

18 got a few eliminations:

  • Sorel (offscreen);

  • One assist along side Krillin;

  • That one lady from the Pride Troopers who's name I've forgotten;

  • Ribrianne;

And that's all the ones I can remember. The problem is they constantly had her needing to be saved, and her elimination of Ribrianne came with some Power of Love bullshit, and we all know the reason why. I don't even need to say it. I think it tainted things a little.

One Strip! One Strip!
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#74186: Jan 2nd 2018 at 9:30:57 PM

[up] That's it Rob.

The amount of damsel in distress moments colored the image & the whole power of love thing is unfitting for her.

Also a few points should be taken off for designated girl fight.

edited 2nd Jan '18 9:35:17 PM by slimcoder

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#74187: Jan 2nd 2018 at 9:31:28 PM

18 does well in the moments they give her, with some pretty awesome scenes and fights to her name, but heavily suffers from what you might call "female character syndrome" in that she's constantly being damseled and a lot of her awesome moments are undercut by being dependent in some way on the men in her life.

edited 2nd Jan '18 9:32:21 PM by KnownUnknown

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#74188: Jan 2nd 2018 at 9:31:59 PM

18 is an example of a character actually being treated poorly, as she has been sidelined by male characters who don't even make sense to be in the story. In an arc this large, her moments aren't that impressive by comparison, and she constantly was put into positions where she would need to be saved. Even saving 17 came at a cost of her being eliminated and was used to give him a much more impressive moment.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#74189: Jan 2nd 2018 at 9:39:34 PM

@Saiga And you're wrong. You're just wrong. Because you're still stuck in the past arguing using Z logic like like it's still recent, relevant, or applicable. This is a Dragon Ball Super discussion, and I am using Dragon Ball Super logic.

Harmila's blasts are monumentally stronger than he is, and no-one in the episode was shown tanking a hit from him and leaving unharmed. Piccolo was referring to it being similar to the Makankosappo in that both are piercing attacks designed to stab through people, not in reference to its strength. Piercing beams are also similar to the Kienzan, in that they can hit above their Power Level. Tenshinhan right now is almost as strong as base Goku, because he's been training off-screen. Tenshinhan used the Multiform to get close because dodging the blasts was impossible because they are too quick and one hit would've one-shot him, so he split himself up so that he could sacrifice three of himself and at least one of him could reach Harmila.

The episode fell flat because of its lackluster direction, writing, storyboards, and animation. Nothing wrong with Tenshinhan beating Harmila and going out in a double elimination, they just didn't hype up the snipers properly to make the importance of that moment felt. Pretty sure the same person in charge of that episode handled the U4 erasure episode, so they should just ditch them, their episodes have been the most poorly handled in this arc.

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#74190: Jan 2nd 2018 at 9:43:40 PM

Is there still no full version of the Ultra Instinct song?

Cause that's a nice damn song, and I went to be able to rock out to it.

One Strip! One Strip!
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#74191: Jan 2nd 2018 at 9:45:32 PM

[up][up]Pushover, I think the thing you fail to realize is that "Dragon Ball Super throws out old consistency and logic in order to do whatever it wants" is not a persuasive argument that actually make Super look better.

I've meant to say that for a while actually, and think it cuts to the heart or a the issue with much of the discussion with you about these things.

edited 2nd Jan '18 9:47:01 PM by LSBK

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#74192: Jan 2nd 2018 at 9:45:53 PM

Yup it's an overall underwhelming performance in the end & that makes me sad cause I really like 18.

Just compare her performance to her brother who absolutely dominated in his solo fights & just oozed uber badass. Even Roshi had more dynamic solo fights.

Oh well fingers crossed that hopefully her story role in Fighter Z is good.

[up][up] Not yet I think. I believe we'll hear the full song in the final battle with Jiren.

edited 2nd Jan '18 9:46:40 PM by slimcoder

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#74193: Jan 2nd 2018 at 9:46:03 PM

Saying that Super uses different underlying logic is not a very strong defence for being right.

Calling somone wrong for expecting the series to be consistent with the source material is not only incredibly rude, but also not something everyone needs to accept.

Using different logic is totally worthy of criticism and means that there is other issues with the episode.

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#74194: Jan 2nd 2018 at 9:46:39 PM

Didn't she eliminate Tupper as well?

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#74195: Jan 2nd 2018 at 9:50:56 PM

Also, yeah, multiform still doesn't make sense. Four chances to close the gap shouldn't help when Tenshinhan just dropped his speed to 1/4. He could move faster if he just didnt do that.

hardcorefakes coolest_guy from probably America Since: Oct, 2015 Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
coolest_guy
#74196: Jan 2nd 2018 at 9:50:57 PM

[up][up]

Yup. Had to bail out Goku too for some reason.

edited 2nd Jan '18 9:51:08 PM by hardcorefakes

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#74197: Jan 2nd 2018 at 9:52:51 PM

She seemed fine in the beginning but then just disappeared for a while and started apearing more to be damseled than do anything

Moth13 Since: Sep, 2010
#74198: Jan 2nd 2018 at 9:56:04 PM

Didn't she eliminate Tupper as well?

Also that one robot she and 17 took out together.

RJ-19-CLOVIS-93 from New Zealand (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#74199: Jan 2nd 2018 at 9:56:04 PM

People talk about how Bulma's mom hasn't aged, but neither has Bulma's dad. He's still looks the same now as he did when introduced

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#74200: Jan 2nd 2018 at 9:56:06 PM

I'm not trying to use it to make Super look better, I'm trying to use it to convince people to stop making asinine complaints that they know damn well are using a train of logic Dragon Ball hasn't bothered with in a while. You people know damn well that Super follows Super logic, not Z logic, so don't waste my time complaining "this thing in Super doesn't make any sense using Z logic". Complaining that Super logic is dumb and inconsistent, that I can understand, but don't argue a stance you know is wrong by the logic used in the series.

Also, if Tenshinhan hadn't used the Multiform, he would've covered slightly more distance before being one-shot.

edited 2nd Jan '18 9:59:22 PM by PushoverMediaCritic


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