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agent-trunks IHE from Every-where, but there Since: Apr, 2015
IHE
#74151: Jan 2nd 2018 at 6:46:16 PM

Am I supposed to believe that's a bad thing? Especially when that was the Tv Tropes biggest complaint on DB?

MyssaRei Since: Feb, 2010
#74152: Jan 2nd 2018 at 6:47:35 PM

[up]

To be fair, we complain about all sorts of things here. Damned if you pander, damned if you don't pander. And God forbid a nostalgia character is used poorly.

Sigilbreaker26 Serial Procrastinator Since: Nov, 2017
Serial Procrastinator
#74153: Jan 2nd 2018 at 6:49:01 PM

Cough, like poor, poor Tien.

Also, it's more of a broken base. A large section of the DB fanbase are power level people who go ballistic whenever a wrench is thrown into all the apparatus that people have debated about for years. Super's been emptying a toolbox into said apparatus, to put it lightly. This is because in Z whenever they wanted to justify bullshit they would usually bring up some half-cocked explanation, but Super doesn't even bother with that anymore.

The best example of pandering is this: why hasn't Vegeta gotten SSJ 3 after all this time, yet is somehow able to go SSB even though he was never given God Ki? Because a large section of the fandom would complain if he went SSJ 3 since he could never do it in Z, and another equally large section of the fandom would complain if he didn't have as many forms as Goku.

edited 2nd Jan '18 6:55:09 PM by Sigilbreaker26

"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#74154: Jan 2nd 2018 at 6:54:17 PM

You dont need to be a power level person to be bothered by Super's power logic, and there are plenty of other issues that can be taken besides power levels to boot.

A story is more than its side characters. If good writing were as easy as throwing some love to the side characters then we'd never have what people see as them getting 'shafted'.

Sigilbreaker26 Serial Procrastinator Since: Nov, 2017
Serial Procrastinator
#74155: Jan 2nd 2018 at 6:56:29 PM

Certainly, but I'm talking about Super specific issues, as opposed to ones that carried over from the later Z period.

"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#74156: Jan 2nd 2018 at 7:18:32 PM

I wonder if Gohan's Fatal Flaw of becoming arrogant when he's the strongest will ever come back. Piccolo spelled out that it was a problem he has, but Gohan never actually grew past it. If the Tournament of Power does decide to end with Gohan, I could see it coming back.

randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#74157: Jan 2nd 2018 at 7:33:33 PM

It's not even a problem specific to him...

Everyone has done it, everyone besides Kriller actually...

Which is ironic because he was only arrogant when he wasn't stronger...

edited 2nd Jan '18 7:33:57 PM by randomness4

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#74158: Jan 2nd 2018 at 7:41:42 PM

Actually no, Krillin has done that. When Guru unlocked his potential, he flew back to get Gohan at top speed in the open like an idiot, attracting the attention of both Zarbon and Vegeta.

edited 2nd Jan '18 7:42:12 PM by PushoverMediaCritic

randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#74159: Jan 2nd 2018 at 7:53:40 PM

That's not arrogance, that's, as you said, him just being an idiot...

He got so excited about a power boost that didn't even finish...

edited 2nd Jan '18 7:54:34 PM by randomness4

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#74160: Jan 2nd 2018 at 7:58:14 PM

Yeah, that wasn't arrogant. He got carried away but he never picked any stupid fights or extended any fight because of it like the others.

agent-trunks IHE from Every-where, but there Since: Apr, 2015
IHE
#74161: Jan 2nd 2018 at 8:03:59 PM

To be fair, we complain about all sorts of things here. Damned if you pander, damned if you don't pander. And God forbid a nostalgia character is used poorly.

But, Tien being treated poorly is a bad thing. Why shouldn't he have his moment like everyone else did?

Also, it's more of a broken base. A large section of the DB fanbase are power level people who go ballistic whenever a wrench is thrown into all the apparatus that people have debated about for years. Super's been emptying a toolbox into said apparatus, to put it lightly. This is because in Z whenever they wanted to justify bullshit they would usually bring up some half-cocked explanation, but Super doesn't even bother with that anymore.

I feel like that Super no longer having a Broken Base section is saying something. I can understand people being upset on putting so much effort & getting nothing in return does warrant a complaint.

The best example of pandering is this: why hasn't Vegeta gotten SSJ 3 after all this time, yet is somehow able to go SSB even though he was never given God Ki? Because a large section of the fandom would complain if he went SSJ 3 since he could never do it in Z, and another equally large section of the fandom would complain if he didn't have as many forms as Goku.

Why shouldn't Vegeta be able to achieve SSGB? He trained under Whis & he's constantly training to begin with.

Even if Vegeta has gotten SSJ 3, he still looks incredibly dumb in it. This also why I'm glad F-Trunks has SSJ Rage. Everyone having blue hair is just too ridiculous.

edited 2nd Jan '18 8:04:43 PM by agent-trunks

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#74162: Jan 2nd 2018 at 8:12:33 PM

Certainly, but I'm talking about Super specific issues, as opposed to ones that carried over from the later Z period.

So was I.

@Arrogance I mean, Kuririn did that basically this arc. Even though it shouldn't be necessary for Frost to take him by surprise, the story acted like his dropping his guard is the cause of it.

For it coming up for Gohan: I doubt they'll resolve it. They tried to make it a thing for Gohan to get passed it, but they constantly have the characters let down their guards for tension so I doubt they could ever write him as not dropping his guard and it'd be silly to single him out when they have other characters do it.

agent-trunks IHE from Every-where, but there Since: Apr, 2015
IHE
#74163: Jan 2nd 2018 at 8:20:30 PM

That's even assuming Gohan is going to bother training again. The fans want that to be the case, but I'm very curious about his dilemma on balancing his lifestyle.

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#74164: Jan 2nd 2018 at 8:25:08 PM

They could just readjust the room of time and spirit so that Gohan could keep up with his training via one day in there, and then actually live his life the rest of the time.

I mean, the anime seems to be ignoring the can only stay for two years at the most rule anyway (though they could have changed things after it was rebuilt post Buu Saga), so why not. That way, Gohan can keep up his training and still spend time with his family.

One Strip! One Strip!
randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#74165: Jan 2nd 2018 at 8:25:45 PM

True fans wouldn't want him to fight no more for no reason.

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#74166: Jan 2nd 2018 at 8:27:24 PM

Tenshinhan did have a moment in this arc. Him defeating Harmila was his moment. That it happened to be in an underwhelming episode doesn't have anything to do with it. Tenshinhan took out a powerful sniper who was strong enough to threaten Gohan, Piccolo, Goku, and Vegeta. That's a big deal, and if the episode had been handled better, could've been great.

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#74167: Jan 2nd 2018 at 8:42:51 PM

If it'd been handled better they wouldn't pretend a guy Ten could beat is a threat to Piccolo, Gohan, Goku or Vegeta.

agent-trunks IHE from Every-where, but there Since: Apr, 2015
IHE
#74168: Jan 2nd 2018 at 8:46:39 PM

[up][up]

That episode is riddle with problems & his elimination is one of the forced ones. Tied with Piccolo.

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#74169: Jan 2nd 2018 at 8:48:43 PM

I don't see anything wrong with Ten being eliminated taking an enemy with him, or that his enemy momentarily got the better of his instead of being completely dominated.

Ten wasn't badly handled save for him getting manhandled by Roshi. And that was done to pander to Roshi, which is one example of how pandering can create problems in the story.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#74170: Jan 2nd 2018 at 8:52:25 PM

Tien just never got that Toriyama handjob.

How tragic. tongue

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#74171: Jan 2nd 2018 at 8:55:50 PM

Eh.

Tien got to somehow hold back Cell. That's better than most of the cast, including the ones Toriyama often treats better.

He's had his time.

One Strip! One Strip!
LordVatek Not really a lord of anything Since: Sep, 2014
Not really a lord of anything
#74172: Jan 2nd 2018 at 8:56:45 PM

I don't really care that Tien is ignored, I just don't like that Roshi isn't.

This song needs more love.
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#74173: Jan 2nd 2018 at 8:59:13 PM

Krillin did a lot of stupid arrogant stuff when he first showed up (his initial characterization being "arrogant jackass who's nowhere near as good as he thinks he is"), but I don't remember if any of it happened during a fight or was particularly plot important. He tended to get relatively insecure once the fists started flying.

edited 2nd Jan '18 9:03:41 PM by KnownUnknown

agent-trunks IHE from Every-where, but there Since: Apr, 2015
IHE
#74174: Jan 2nd 2018 at 9:01:15 PM

Tien just never got that Toriyama handjob.

How tragic. tongue

As much I don't like Plague, his video was on point on Tien's depiction.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#74175: Jan 2nd 2018 at 9:02:51 PM

[up][up][up][up] I meant recently.

Not back then.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."

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