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Arha Since: Jan, 2010
#74001: Jan 1st 2018 at 7:58:26 PM

Kefla was in SS2. Vegetto was in SSB. But that time limit on potara is stupid in the first place so I'm not going to defend it any further.

Also, UI makes me feel like Vegeta should retire or something similar. I don't want him getting this powerup and staying Goku's rival anymore. It's old and tired.

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#74002: Jan 1st 2018 at 7:58:57 PM

[up][up]I have to say, even though you talk about being "nice", you often come off as kind of insulting dismissive when people voice complaints you don't happen to share.

edited 1st Jan '18 8:00:28 PM by LSBK

Sigilbreaker26 Serial Procrastinator Since: Nov, 2017
Serial Procrastinator
#74003: Jan 1st 2018 at 8:00:08 PM

[up][up] This is Dragon Ball Super... is there anything that isn't old and tired?

"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#74004: Jan 1st 2018 at 8:00:39 PM

[up][up][up][up] The UI he used against Jiren affected both offense & defense.

Piccolo outright states that his punches were growing stronger along with his dodging.

The version with Kefla was a more heavily weakened state with only his dodging being empowered.

edited 1st Jan '18 8:01:05 PM by slimcoder

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#74005: Jan 1st 2018 at 8:03:21 PM

But that time limit on potara is stupid in the first place so I'm not going to defend it any further.

I know right? I mean, Toriyama came up with the earrings because he didn't just want to rehash the dance since Toei did the Fusion movie first, but then he essentially makes Earring fusion the same as Dance fusion. What the hell was the point? Especially when there was already a way for them to reverse the fusion via the Dragonballs.

edited 1st Jan '18 8:03:31 PM by HandsomeRob

One Strip! One Strip!
MightyMatilda Mr. Clueless from New Jersey, USA Since: Jan, 2015
Mr. Clueless
#74006: Jan 1st 2018 at 8:05:56 PM

I heard somewhere that fusions last a shorter time the stronger the fusion is. Is that true, or am I misremembering something?

De Romanīs, lingua Latina gloriosa non fuī.
Sigilbreaker26 Serial Procrastinator Since: Nov, 2017
Serial Procrastinator
#74007: Jan 1st 2018 at 8:06:54 PM

[up] That's Dance Dance Fusvolution, not the earrings.

"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"
LordVatek Not really a lord of anything Since: Sep, 2014
Not really a lord of anything
#74008: Jan 1st 2018 at 8:07:40 PM

[up][up][up]So he could bring back Vegetto without having to add any extra details about defusing them.

edited 1st Jan '18 8:08:16 PM by LordVatek

This song needs more love.
MightyMatilda Mr. Clueless from New Jersey, USA Since: Jan, 2015
Mr. Clueless
#74009: Jan 1st 2018 at 8:08:22 PM

[up][up]Well, since earring fusions are now nearly the same as dance fusions, might as well go all the way.

edited 1st Jan '18 8:08:38 PM by MightyMatilda

De Romanīs, lingua Latina gloriosa non fuī.
Hobgoblin Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#74010: Jan 1st 2018 at 8:12:13 PM

Dance Fusion is thirty minutes shorter, unless you're using any power-up over Super Saiyan 2, in which case it's five minutes.

I still feel like Kefla should have burned out fast like Vegito even if she was only Super Saiyan 2, though, given that she was seemingly around the same power area. But if it was only a two minute fight, I guess that makes sense.

Lousy Namek time.

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#74011: Jan 1st 2018 at 8:13:47 PM

I mean, going off the dialogue apparently she was stronger than Goku when he went Ultra Instinct the first time or something. How much time should that cut?

BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#74012: Jan 1st 2018 at 8:24:46 PM

Glad I'm not the only one who doesn't want Vegeta to get Ultra Instinct. Their rivalry has been played out ages ago.

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#74013: Jan 1st 2018 at 8:26:59 PM

So you just want Goku to stay firmly ahead of Vegeta? I'm not saying that's bad, just asking if that's what you want.

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#74014: Jan 1st 2018 at 8:28:36 PM

I have to say, even though you talk about being "nice", you often come off as kind of insulting dismissive when people voice complaints you don't happen to share.

I thought I was the only one who felt that at times.

Moth13 Since: Sep, 2010
#74015: Jan 1st 2018 at 8:29:20 PM

Well Vegito's power was Super Saiyan Blue Squared or something ridiculous. Wasn't he said to be stronger than Beerus in the manga?

The UI he used against Jiren affected both offense & defense.

Piccolo outright states that his punches were growing stronger along with his dodging.

The version with Kefla was a more heavily weakened state with only his dodging being empowered.

I dunno, given that both versions are called the sign/omen of ultra instinct, I don't think it's meant to be the fully mastered version in its first appearance.

Anyway, my point is that I loved the fight because even though Goku has the ability of infinite dodging, it still managed to make me feel like Goku was in danger, that he could lose. Obviously he won't because he's the protagonist, but having a feeling of genuine tension is very important.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#74016: Jan 1st 2018 at 8:30:54 PM

[up][up][up] I mean he isn't already?

Though I really want Vegeta to transition to being a daddy's girl parent.

[up] Even if it wasn't fully mastered the fact he was able to match Jiren punch for punch means its better than the one he used against Kefla.

edited 1st Jan '18 8:34:24 PM by slimcoder

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#74017: Jan 1st 2018 at 8:31:25 PM

[up][up][up] I also feel that way

edited 1st Jan '18 8:31:59 PM by Saiga

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#74018: Jan 1st 2018 at 8:33:03 PM

[up][up][up]I mean, I thought the laser light show finale did genuinely look cool, but I couldn't help but feel burned out by spending three episodes fighting character that just didn't seem like they should be getting a fight as long as they did, among other things.

edited 1st Jan '18 8:33:43 PM by LSBK

LordVatek Not really a lord of anything Since: Sep, 2014
Not really a lord of anything
#74019: Jan 1st 2018 at 8:33:21 PM
Thumped: Wow. That was rude. Too many of this kind of thump will bring a suspension. Please keep it civil.
This song needs more love.
Sigilbreaker26 Serial Procrastinator Since: Nov, 2017
Serial Procrastinator
#74020: Jan 1st 2018 at 8:33:54 PM

[up][up][up][up][up]Agreed, it also helps put it apart from Goku's other forms.

edited 1st Jan '18 8:34:51 PM by Sigilbreaker26

"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"
HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#74021: Jan 1st 2018 at 8:36:37 PM

Ultra Instinct is an Angel technique, right? Might not even be locked to Saiyans if that's the case.

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#74022: Jan 1st 2018 at 8:39:28 PM

The technique isn't. The power up that makes it RELEVANT likely is a Saiyan transformation.

Because no other user of UI goes through the physical change or 'heat' that Goku does.

Sigilbreaker26 Serial Procrastinator Since: Nov, 2017
Serial Procrastinator
#74023: Jan 1st 2018 at 8:41:03 PM

Doesn't even matter. Kaioken isn't Saiyan locked and Goku is still the only one to use that.

"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#74024: Jan 1st 2018 at 9:06:45 PM

Goku's offense in Ultra Instinct is greater than in KKx20, but it's still lower than his speed in Ultra Instinct because Goku is still thinking about how he should attack. Jiren didn't go all out against UI Goku, and he's still holding back his full power. SS2 Kafla surpassed UI Goku from before, when he was fighting Jiren. Goku improved in UI during his battle with her just like he improved in UI during his battle with Jiren.

Jiren > UI Goku (end of Kafla fight) > SS2 Kafla > UI Goku (end of Jiren fight) > UI Goku (start)

edited 1st Jan '18 9:08:12 PM by PushoverMediaCritic

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#74025: Jan 1st 2018 at 9:12:55 PM

Yup Kefla ruined Fusion for me.

The whole Fusion multiplier finally reached maxed bullshit with her.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."

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