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Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#73826: Dec 31st 2017 at 3:50:20 PM

[up][up][up] Toriyama has contradicted what is in his own manga - Yamcha is shown not having an issue being around women after Bulma, and mentions having a girlfriend after the Cell Games.

[up][up] Being 'a cheater' is not a character trait. It's not who you are, despite people who over romanticize relationships might think. It's an action anyone can take, and a pretty fucking minor one at that.

Also, I don't see any intention to make Yamcha look bad because no-one dwells on it or even criticizes him for it. Goku doesn't think 'oh what a dick' or anything of the sort.

edited 31st Dec '17 3:51:05 PM by Saiga

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#73827: Dec 31st 2017 at 3:50:37 PM

[up][up][up]I was responding to Rob's phrasing which I consider hyperbolic. And, yeah, that's Rob for you but still.

edited 31st Dec '17 3:51:10 PM by LSBK

HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#73828: Dec 31st 2017 at 3:51:54 PM

Yes, Frieza's race exist. Frieza and his family are members of a ridiculously strong, ridiculously evil mutant offshoot of it, so they aren't typical representatives.

MightyMatilda Mr. Clueless from New Jersey, USA Since: Jan, 2015
Mr. Clueless
#73829: Dec 31st 2017 at 3:56:07 PM

@Saiga: It's an action anyone can take, and a pretty fucking minor one at that.

You are... significantly more cynical about relationships than I am.

De Romanīs, lingua Latina gloriosa non fuī.
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#73830: Dec 31st 2017 at 3:58:33 PM

I mean, I don't know about "minor" but it is something anyone has the potential to do. I don't think it should be something that defines or black marks a person forever. Sometimes people make mistakes, sometimes it's not even a mistake because it can lead to a better relationship and the timing just happened to be bad. (ignoring statistics about how often people who have cheated before tend to do it again, but still.)

edited 31st Dec '17 3:59:21 PM by LSBK

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#73831: Dec 31st 2017 at 3:59:30 PM

The thing here is Yamcha's relationship with Bulma wasn't important to begin with, so tossing it aside isn't a big deal.

BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#73832: Dec 31st 2017 at 4:00:03 PM

[up][up][up] Yes, it is an action. That still doesn't change my point on it soley being done to justify the break up.

And the characters in-universe reacting is irrelevant. The audience are meant to see Yamcha's action as bad so we don't dwell on Bulma and Vegeta suddenly hooking up.

The funny thing is that Yamcha cheating wasn't even needed. You could have just had them break up normally and everything can play out the same.

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#73833: Dec 31st 2017 at 4:00:06 PM

[up][up][up][up]Either that or Saiga is trying to justify how it's not a big deal to cheat on a significant other for some other reason. It's a big fucking deal, and indicates that something is either deeply wrong with the relationship or that the person doing it is a giant asshole.

edited 31st Dec '17 4:01:05 PM by PushoverMediaCritic

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#73834: Dec 31st 2017 at 4:00:33 PM

That's not cynical at all. It's realistic. Cheating happens, people move on.

That's not even getting into the fact that Japan is fucking huge about infidelity. A 2008 survey had 20% of married men admit to cheating within that year. That's just the ones who admitted it! And that's marriage.

You really expect Toriyama to make a big deal of that to satisfy western readers?

[up] No, I'm just being realistic. It does not take a gigantic asshole to cheat. Mistakes happen.

edited 31st Dec '17 4:01:29 PM by Saiga

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#73835: Dec 31st 2017 at 4:02:04 PM

Huh maybe India does have the right idea about marriage.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#73836: Dec 31st 2017 at 4:02:11 PM

I mean, statistically, most men will end up cheating if a marriage goes on long enough, and a large percentage of women do the safe. It's a part of life.

And that's just marriage. And a relationship ending because one party cheated is pretty normal.

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#73837: Dec 31st 2017 at 4:05:58 PM

Another survey, from Japan:

Married men who want to be unfaithful - 58%
Unmarried men who want to be unfaithful - 41%
Married women who want to be unfaithful - 23%
Unmarried women who want to be unfaithful - 19%

Married men who have been unfaithful to their partner - 27%
Unmarried men who have been unfaithful to their partner- 21%
Married women have been unfaithful to their partner - 13%
Unmarried women who have been unfaithful to their partner - 18%

Yamcha is not unusual.

edited 31st Dec '17 4:06:42 PM by Saiga

randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#73838: Dec 31st 2017 at 4:09:29 PM

Wasn't this off screen anyway?

Who cares what the explanation was?

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#73839: Dec 31st 2017 at 4:13:44 PM

Damn. Why would you even give a survey on something like that?

Anyway, any thoughts on my Kaiouken / Spirit Bomb use the same concept instead of being two different techniques idea?

One Strip! One Strip!
Hobgoblin Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#73840: Dec 31st 2017 at 4:18:56 PM

WE've seen that when the two Zen-O's erase something, they erase all of it: the participants at the tournament, and the inhabitants of the universe. Hell, even that picture of that one Universe 10 dude's family was erased. He gets...everything, so why are Future Trunks and Mai still existing?

Because with the Ningen Survival Arc he's making it his explicit goal to erase every aspect of the losing universes whereas in the Ningen Extermination Arc he was just trying to get rid of the Zamasu infected universe specifically?

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#73841: Dec 31st 2017 at 4:21:13 PM

Yes, it is an action. That still doesn't change my point on it soley being done to justify the break up.

And the characters in-universe reacting is irrelevant. The audience are meant to see Yamcha's action as bad so we don't dwell on Bulma and Vegeta suddenly hooking up.

The funny thing is that Yamcha cheating wasn't even needed. You could have just had them break up normally and everything can play out the same.

I want a citation for the second claim, because I'm not seeing any evidence of it. The character's reactions are one of the ways we know what message the author is trying to convey, because it would be dumb to have your characters react in a way other than what you intend the audience to unless you have a way of pointing out those reactions as correct.

Seems more like knee jerk reactionism to me.

And yeah, Yamcha cheating isn't needed. Which is also why it just isn't a big deal.

BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#73842: Dec 31st 2017 at 4:30:34 PM

I mean, I'm literally just spit balling. Unless I can get in Toriyama's head, I can't really say what his intentions were. But I think you're being rather dismissive in saying that because it doesn't matter, we shouldn't be questioning it.

Yea, it ultimately doesn't matter and I actually don't care that much, but that doesn't mean it's not worth talking about since we're on the subject.

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#73843: Dec 31st 2017 at 4:33:19 PM

I mean, wasn't there a thing where the voice actors of Bulma and Yamcah asked Toriyama "Hey, what's up?" and he laughed it off as "Hey, Yamcha's a cheater"?

Even if it's not meant to be taken super seriously it does seem like the cheating was added as at least a Hand Wave to explain why they didn't work out? Or did what I remember hearing about not even happen?

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#73844: Dec 31st 2017 at 4:35:08 PM

Nah, that's not what happened. Yamcha's VA was just asking why Yamcha didn't get more cool moments when Toriyama laughed and said "Come on, Yamcha's a cheater!"

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#73845: Dec 31st 2017 at 4:38:38 PM

And yeah, Yamcha cheating isn't needed. Which is also why it just isn't a big deal.

I agree with the first part. I suppose in the long run it's irrelevant since it's barely even made a plot point.

One Strip! One Strip!
Arha Since: Jan, 2010
#73846: Dec 31st 2017 at 4:40:12 PM

So anyway, are Universe 2 actually popular in Japan or was this Toei just being insane?

Oh yeah and Yamcha and Bulma's relationship felt incredibly shallow. I'm not surprised they'd break up or cheat or whatever. It happens.

Also, Hit should have told the U6 saiyans to chuck Jiren off the edge. Why did he not do that?

edited 31st Dec '17 4:45:23 PM by Arha

BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#73847: Dec 31st 2017 at 4:45:37 PM

Clearly Yamcha should have been more of a sociopath. Bulma seems to be attracted to those types.

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#73848: Dec 31st 2017 at 4:46:15 PM

[up] Oh like she's much better herself.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#73849: Dec 31st 2017 at 4:46:45 PM

[up][up][up] Arrogance cause apparently that's the fatal flaw for the entire U6.

Actually that is a good question: are the magical idiots popular in Japan?

[up] Indeed she's not exactly not a saint.

edited 31st Dec '17 4:47:12 PM by slimcoder

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
LordVatek Not really a lord of anything Since: Sep, 2014
Not really a lord of anything
#73850: Dec 31st 2017 at 4:47:03 PM

Vegeta better watch out or Bulma might leave him for Frieza.

This song needs more love.

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