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Arha Since: Jan, 2010
#73776: Dec 31st 2017 at 10:34:21 AM

Oh so now Libby is cheating. Damn she's annoying.

So, um, what she says to Jiren implies she uses her abilities to force people to love her? That's... something.

What's the point to using the spirit bomb when there's only, what, 120? people here, almost all of whom would not be willing to lend their energy?

Oh yeah and it's cheating for the same reason Libby's move was. Well, maybe a bit less since that move required the use of items.

edited 31st Dec '17 10:55:51 AM by Arha

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#73777: Dec 31st 2017 at 11:08:28 AM

What are you talking about, Rob? People make Chris Benoit jokes all the time.

God dammit internet! And god dammit universe!

I think Freeza and Frost (and U9) were running off the assumption that if you sided with another universe, you get to stay in that universe if it wins.

Well that's just...

After all, Trunks and Mai weren't erased along with their timeline, and The Super Dragon Balls weren't erased along with U6, so it is something Zeno can control.

....hold on. Why weren't Trunks and Mai erased. WE've seen that when the two Zen-O's erase something, they erase all of it: the participants at the tournament, and the inhabitants of the universe. Hell, even that picture of that one Universe 10 dude's family was erased. He gets...everything, so why are Future Trunks and Mai still existing?

I mean, maybe it's due to their very nature as time aberrations, or...

...Maybe Toriyama just forgot. Only time will tell I suppose.

One Strip! One Strip!
Arha Since: Jan, 2010
#73778: Dec 31st 2017 at 11:27:11 AM

Hm. Ultra Instinct is actually pretty hype. I just wish Jiren was less boring so it could be shown off better.

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#73779: Dec 31st 2017 at 11:30:51 AM

...Holy shit.

Arha actually liked something...and said so...

The pod people have clearly arrived. Trust no one.tongue

But yeah, Ultra Instinct is pretty hype. I think there are few people who will say other wise, even among those who really really hate Super.

Watched the Mistare Fusion Video.

Pretty much agree with all of it, and not just the parts about Yamcha. I'll give credit to Toriyama: he ultimately made Bulma and Vegeta work, despite sucking at romance, and despite there being no logic to them getting together. Though it helps that he skipped all the meat and gets straight to them being together.

One Strip! One Strip!
BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#73780: Dec 31st 2017 at 11:47:04 AM

[up][up] Even people who dislike Super agree that it's the hypest thing in a long time.

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
Sigilbreaker26 Serial Procrastinator Since: Nov, 2017
Serial Procrastinator
#73781: Dec 31st 2017 at 12:05:20 PM

The music, the slow mo, everything just works together... now if only it had been literally anyone but Jiren.

"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"
Eriorguez Since: Jun, 2009
#73782: Dec 31st 2017 at 12:10:00 PM

Manga!Jiren, on the other hand, will be hype.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#73783: Dec 31st 2017 at 12:16:27 PM

For it shall be the grandest battle between the Ultimate Hero & the Ultimate Warrior. [awesome]

edited 31st Dec '17 12:17:05 PM by slimcoder

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#73784: Dec 31st 2017 at 12:22:44 PM

Ultra Instinct, in terms of presentation, is easily the best transformation in the series. In terms of pure looks from static images, I still prefer Super Saiyan Blue Kaioken.

100% agree with Mistare Fusion's video. Yamcha's cheating is bullshit and always has been. I'd be more likely to believe Bulma breaking up with Yamcha over something minor or Bulma cheating on Yamcha with Vegeta than I am with Yamcha cheating on Bulma. That said, Vegeta and Bulma's relationship currently is kind of perfect, it's just the starting point was a little suspect.

DS9guy Since: Jan, 2001
#73785: Dec 31st 2017 at 12:26:26 PM

Based on comments he made in the first two Cell Arc videos, Mistare Fusion going to have a lot to say about characters doing dumb things to move the plot forward.

edited 31st Dec '17 12:27:17 PM by DS9guy

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#73786: Dec 31st 2017 at 12:28:05 PM

Well, The Cell series is the series where that's a pretty big thing. Characters fuck up almost constantly in really detrimental ways.

Except for everyone's favourite three eyed cowboy that is.tongue

Sure, he doesn't help much, but he doesn't fuck up either.

One Strip! One Strip!
Sigilbreaker26 Serial Procrastinator Since: Nov, 2017
Serial Procrastinator
#73787: Dec 31st 2017 at 12:28:16 PM

There is the point of Bulma deciding to shag a homicidal alien warlord, but to me that's not really more unbelievable than everyone just deciding to put up with said homicidal alien warlord - which they do. Vegeta's behaviour is a bit funny too - I guess he's gone a bit introspective with Freeza's demise.

[up] Tien does actually help a fair bit, it's just that his contributions go to hell when everyone else fucks up.

edited 31st Dec '17 12:29:33 PM by Sigilbreaker26

"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#73788: Dec 31st 2017 at 12:30:27 PM

I never understood the complaints about that. Characters doing dumb things to move the plot along is not inherently bad. If dumb in a way that doesn't suit the character as established, or in way that regresses them to a point they should already be beyond that's one thing, but characters making bad decisions, that make sense for how they have been written, is not something I see as deserving of criticism.

edited 31st Dec '17 12:30:52 PM by LSBK

Sigilbreaker26 Serial Procrastinator Since: Nov, 2017
Serial Procrastinator
#73789: Dec 31st 2017 at 12:31:52 PM

[up] Well the saga has a lot of characters acting a lot dumber than they usually have been. Vegeta especially spent the entire Freeza saga as cunning as a fox but he's going to be by far the biggest offender from this point on.

I'm not sure if the Cell Saga or the Buu Saga is the one where more characters act stupid, but I think the Cell Saga is the saga where more characters act out of character stupid.

edited 31st Dec '17 12:32:45 PM by Sigilbreaker26

"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"
HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#73790: Dec 31st 2017 at 12:32:43 PM

It's funny - Toriyama stated he had all his endgame couples get together offscreen because he says he's terrible at romance, and yet I still find him better at it than writers who do go in-depth on their romance arcs, like Kishimoto and *blech* Nakaba.

edited 31st Dec '17 12:32:55 PM by HamburgerTime

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#73791: Dec 31st 2017 at 12:33:03 PM

He was cunning because he knew he was weaker so he let his fear take control.

After becoming a Super Saiyan he essentially went power made.

[up] Even then they barely did any romance.

edited 31st Dec '17 12:34:04 PM by slimcoder

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#73792: Dec 31st 2017 at 12:34:58 PM

Vegeta isn't at all out of character, the circumstances are just different. Against Frieza, from the beginning he has no delusions of being able to beat him, which is (partially) why he wants to become immortal in the first place, he sees it as his only chance of winning (at least at first).

In the Cell Arc, everything he does is about proving he's the strongest, and letting Cell become complete ties into that perfectly.

The character is acting differently because context and motivations are different now.

edited 31st Dec '17 12:35:40 PM by LSBK

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#73793: Dec 31st 2017 at 12:35:33 PM

Vegeta's IQ seems to be connected to how big of a power level difference there is between him and the next strongest person in the room and which way it's going.

edited 31st Dec '17 12:36:21 PM by PushoverMediaCritic

Gehayadren Bad Movie Binge Collector from A Garbage Fire Since: Jun, 2016 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
#73794: Dec 31st 2017 at 12:53:18 PM

[up]The larger the gap, the dumber he is?

Ha ha ha. What a story, Mark.
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#73795: Dec 31st 2017 at 12:56:39 PM

Pride cometh before the fall as they say.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#73796: Dec 31st 2017 at 1:01:54 PM

I do wonder sometimes about when was the precise point Toriyama decided to add Vegeta to the main cast.

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#73797: Dec 31st 2017 at 1:04:58 PM

Well, he admitted to keeping him around and creating Frieza because he was popular.

I'd say it must have began around then (so probably near the end of the Saiyan saga) and maybe fully codified around the time he decided to kill him in the Frieza Saga (because people didn't want him to die, and Toriyama knew he'd be bringing him back).

One Strip! One Strip!
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#73798: Dec 31st 2017 at 1:14:48 PM

If Vegeta is the same strength as the next strongest person, he is of average Vegeta intelligence. If he's stronger than the next strongest person, he gets dumber. If he's weaker than the next strongest person, he gets smarter.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#73799: Dec 31st 2017 at 2:17:37 PM

Oh yeah there's also the time he honestly thought he could beat Frieza because he deluded himself into thinking he was a Super Saiyan.

So yeah Vegeta's always been an idiot the minute he assume's he's stronger than everyone else.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
DarkHunter from New Mexico Since: Jan, 2001
#73800: Dec 31st 2017 at 2:21:39 PM

Yeah, whenever Vegeta's forced to admit he's on the losing side in terms of strength, then suddenly he starts to get intelligent.

If he can't win by fighting hard, he'll fight smart instead. The problem is convincing him that he is, in fact, weaker than his opposition.


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