TVTropes Now available in the app store!
Open

Follow TV Tropes

Following

Dragon Ball

Go To

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#73551: Dec 29th 2017 at 10:06:20 PM

All that really establishes is that everyone who can break the arena in this tournament is stronger than base Buu Saga Gohan.

Ikedatakeshi Baby dango from singapore Since: Nov, 2015 Relationship Status: Singularity
Baby dango
#73552: Dec 29th 2017 at 10:07:17 PM

How is breaking a sword suppose to establish that? Gohan didn't try attacking the sword.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#73553: Dec 29th 2017 at 10:10:39 PM

Characters enhance weapons with Ki. It's how Trunks' sword is relevant throughout his arc. Though, maybe Gohan wasn't using Ki to strengthen the Z Sword since they were testing the sword's edge.

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#73554: Dec 29th 2017 at 10:11:41 PM

Given the conclusion drawn was 'this sword isn't special' it doesn't seem like the Katchin scene is meant to demonstrate anything about Gohan's strength.

Moth13 Since: Sep, 2010
#73555: Dec 29th 2017 at 10:19:24 PM

It really does need more than that, because it's incredibly lazy to introduce that kind of power without an appropriate amount of build up or justification.
If your problem is with Blue level power being devalued, that's fair, but I think "there's so much hidden power in there" works a lot better than the "I just am" or "I did a bunch of pushups" we usually get.

And you're using out of universe reasons for in-universe inconsistencies, which does nothing to excuse the level of writing.
My point is that it's not an in-universe inconsistency because Broly isn't in-universe.

Also, the berserk aspect was never actually used against her, so it's not much of a balancing factor.

She nearly attacked her own teammate like twice.

What doesn't add up is that despite having several characters comparable to her position, she's way stronger than them without explanation as to why. It's not consistent with the rest of the cast, and you're acting like something not being established gives it free reign to go as crazy as they want without justifying it. That's just plain bad writing.

The explanation is that she has that super-special-awesome-green-berserk-donotsteal-form. No other character in the cast who did rage boosts did the same thing, which is why we can buy that it goes above and beyond what happened previously.

Arha Since: Jan, 2010
#73556: Dec 29th 2017 at 10:22:17 PM

Um, 'There's so much hidden potential there' is exactly the same as 'I just am.'

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#73557: Dec 29th 2017 at 10:25:38 PM

Its worse for Kale because we just met this character. We barely get a feel for her & her current power level before she becomes a Berserker.

Compared to say Gohan who may have tons of potential but we've so much time with him that we do have a feel on how he works.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Jedi1113 Since: Jun, 2009
#73558: Dec 29th 2017 at 10:32:34 PM

And if we spent the appropriate amount of time on her everyone would be sitting here complaining about that dragging things out.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#73559: Dec 29th 2017 at 10:33:11 PM

I'm fine with it because this is her introduction as a character. She is introduced as a meek girl with immense self-loathing who can turn into a hulking green rage monster of incredible power, and that works for me because that is her character concept. It's not like she was introduced a while ago and then suddenly now she has this power, the power was part of her original introduction. Just like we can believe a 1,000 year old assassin who can stop time for a decisecond or two and strike at pressure points, I can believe a female Saiyan who looks like Broly and acts like Bruce Banner/the Hulk.

Moth13 Since: Sep, 2010
#73560: Dec 29th 2017 at 10:33:24 PM

@Arha: It feels different to me because there's an on-screen process to unlocking it. Plus we've seen that kind of thing happen before, as Saiga pointed out.

edited 29th Dec '17 10:33:44 PM by Moth13

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#73561: Dec 29th 2017 at 10:37:31 PM

I don't see how it being the introduction to Kale makes it better. Like, yeah, Hit was introduced with his abilities but they were abilities that he had actually worked on. Kale's strength is literally something she's experiencing at the same time as we are, and that's the part that makes it ridiculous.

No other "hidden potential" character has been written as lazily as she has.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#73562: Dec 29th 2017 at 10:44:27 PM

Well, maybe it works for me because her transformation doesn't remind me of Gohan or any other 'hidden potential' character. She reminds me of the Hulk. I can accept Saiyan Hulk being ludicrously strong.

Arha Since: Jan, 2010
#73563: Dec 29th 2017 at 10:44:46 PM

I might have been able to accept Kale being some kind of super freak genius like that if her personality was at all appealing. Like I'm basically neutral on Caulifla now because yeah, she's a super genius but she has an okay personality. And also because just being something of a freak in terms of development just isn't enough to let her match up to guys that are also freaks and have been fighting and training for decades. Goku was just having fun with her and was in no serious danger at any point.

Hm. I was kind of interested in Cabba because he was very unlike the typical Saiyan but then Kale comes along and is even more atypical and I hate her.

edited 29th Dec '17 10:45:23 PM by Arha

hardcorefakes coolest_guy from probably America Since: Oct, 2015 Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
coolest_guy
#73564: Dec 29th 2017 at 11:56:35 PM

[up]x3

Caulifla is almost as bad as Kale. Kale's worse because she's so much stronger than Caulifla.

Eriorguez Since: Jun, 2009
#73565: Dec 30th 2017 at 4:32:26 AM

For the record, in the manga, the only God-tier characters have been Goku Black, Merged Zamasu and Toppo, who is stated to have Godly ki. Golden Freeza hasn't appeared yet, and Hit is basically Weak, but Skilled compared to God-tier characters due to the nature of his moves. The tournament has yet to start, but I suspect we will only see God/Blue when dealing with Toppo and Jiren.

Blue is still a very big deal in the manga, yet far below Beerus' power. Goku still uses SS 2 and 3 to gauge the power of strong mortals, like 17.

And Toei has no idea of how to power scale, no matter what PMC may write essays about.

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#73566: Dec 30th 2017 at 4:49:33 AM

I didn't mind Hit because he was a new character and a new race. The problem with their Saiyan girls is that they're a familiar race, making any skips they did to become threats more noticeable and easier to criticize if it was handled poorly.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#73567: Dec 30th 2017 at 5:06:45 AM

[up][up]Actually, manga Hit powered up after Goku started beating him up in God. Granted, he was really unused to using his full power, so he could only use his Time-skip one time and it didn't even work because of Goku's quick transformation into Blue. Also, their fight ended there rather anticlimactically without either of them landing a single attack. Still, it's possible that once manga Hit gets back into shape for the Tournament of Power, his strength may exceed SSG at least.

Also, again, the manga did SS2 Vegeta > SS2 Black > base Black > MSS2 Trunks > SS3 Goku. That is just as bad, if not worse, than anything the Super anime's ever done.

edited 30th Dec '17 5:10:11 AM by PushoverMediaCritic

Sigilbreaker26 Serial Procrastinator Since: Nov, 2017
Serial Procrastinator
#73568: Dec 30th 2017 at 7:31:38 AM

Speaking as someone who personally doesn't care a ton about the power scaling in Dragonball a lot.. the Super anime is absolutely horrific when it comes to that. There is just zero defence for things like Caulifla getting SSJ 2 straight away, basically all the shot Trunks does in the Goku Black arc, etc. If I did care about DB power consistency the Super Anime would drive me apoplectic.

"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"
VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#73569: Dec 30th 2017 at 7:42:14 AM

I've been trying not to care about it myself. It's hard to shake old habits though, especially when you have as much nostalgia for Dragon Ball as I do.

Ikedatakeshi Baby dango from singapore Since: Nov, 2015 Relationship Status: Singularity
Baby dango
#73570: Dec 30th 2017 at 7:44:06 AM

I would say not having the nostalgia factor makes it harder to shut your brain down when something ridiculous happen.

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#73571: Dec 30th 2017 at 7:47:00 AM

I meant nostalgia for figuring out why everyone's as powerful as they are. Like, I can say Toriyama could have done this better all I want, but that's just because I'm already a longtime fan that cares too much about the things he never cared about.

edited 30th Dec '17 7:50:26 AM by VeryMelon

BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#73572: Dec 30th 2017 at 8:36:26 AM

I've longed accepted that Super is just stupid as fuck, so I'm literally just rolling with it. It's easier that way. I will say though, some of you are really jumping through hoops to make sense of all of this and I'm wondering if it's even worth it?

Like holy crap, I'm almost positive the writers don't care anywhere near about the power scaling or consistency as some of the posters in this thread or on other websites.

edited 30th Dec '17 8:36:43 AM by BlackYakuzu94

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#73573: Dec 30th 2017 at 9:49:44 AM

Also, again, the manga did SS 2 Vegeta > SS 2 Black > base Black > MSS 2 Trunks > SS 3 Goku. That is just as bad, if not worse, than anything the Super anime's ever done.

I haven't really been reading the manga but I will say that, personally, a big one time inconsistency is not nearly as bad to me as basically constant inconsistencies of varying levels. The manga seems to have the former since it's the only thing you bring up, the anime by contrast, is constantly doing the latter, also with the bonus of the inconsistencies being fairly large. The anime loses out just for making a habit of it, and clearly not caring.

edited 30th Dec '17 9:51:13 AM by LSBK

GAP Formerly G.G. from Who Knows? Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: In love with love
Formerly G.G.
#73574: Dec 30th 2017 at 9:50:47 AM

[up][up]Sad but true. [tup]

edited 30th Dec '17 9:51:37 AM by GAP

"Mai waifu."
MightyMatilda Mr. Clueless from New Jersey, USA Since: Jan, 2015
Mr. Clueless
#73575: Dec 30th 2017 at 10:24:25 AM

IGNORE

edited 30th Dec '17 10:24:48 AM by MightyMatilda

De Romanīs, lingua Latina gloriosa non fuī.

Total posts: 130,800
Top