Heh. That's true. Beyond his weakness, I'm absolutely positive that if Toriyama had put Yamcha in, he'd have had him get taken out as soon as possible because (outside of the fight with the invisible man), that's what he always does. He literally does not know how to use Yamcha for anything but getting defeated first.
So yeah, in that regards, Roshi is a better choice as Toriyama wouldn't just take the easy way out as he always does.
That being said, we'll have to see how Roshi fairs in the manga compared to the anime first before I assume anything, as the anime is more willing to stretch credibility for what the weaker characters are capable of, even if I enjoyed both Krillin and Roshi's spotlight.
One Strip! One Strip!Roshi's mafuba shouldn't let him bunch that far above his weight unless you want to punch ridiculously large holes in the plot just to make him look good. His is passed, he had a nice way of passing the torch, and going against that just to shallowly pander to certain fans is something I can do without.
Rob's list is logical, but I could also buy Freeza and 17 being dropped in place of Kuririn and Ten. Because Freeza/17 wouldn't automatically be in the table for picks - 17 doesn't know the cast very well and may not have been thought of by Goku, Freeza is dead and untrustworthy so it makes sense not to consider him. Then Kuririn and Ten make it in by virtue of simply being the 9th and 10th strongest around.
It's not that Toriyama doesn't know how to pander to Yamcha. That's got to be the easiest thing to write. It's that he doesn't feel the need, which already makes Yamcha a better choice over Roshi.
edited 28th Dec '17 12:29:56 PM by Saiga
Fair enough. In a situation where they didn't grab the Idiot Ball and bring back Frieza, and they did decide that Goten and Past Trunks were too risky, Tien and Krillin would be good choices, even if only be virtue of having tournament experience, and as Saiga said, being the next strongest guys around.
One Strip! One Strip!I mean, by that logic you could just take Roshi out, put Yamcha in, and spread Roshi's time around to Yamcha, Krillin, and Tien. That's "better" because you get more "cool moments" for more characters over and even nominally makes a bit more sense, which for Super is just a plus, clearly.
edited 28th Dec '17 12:34:40 PM by LSBK
No, no. I only meant Freeza and 17 dropped from your list.
There is no world in which dropping Goten and Trunks for the humans is anything but an immensely idiotic decision.
I'm not the one bringing it up, and it's relevant to the topic at hand in determining who are good choices for the TOP and why
edited 28th Dec '17 12:34:13 PM by Saiga
Which is a shame, because Yamcha actually has a pretty neat design and moveset. The Wolf Fang Fist is, IMO, one of the coolest-looking special moves in the series, and I would've liked to see it used more- either by Yamcha himself, or by Goku since borrowing moves from other fighters is kind of his thing.
No beer?! But if there's no beer, then there's no beef or beans!![]()
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Do you trust them to not mess up? I mean, these are the guys who thought purposely dragging out the battle with Buu was a good idea.
That and the fact that, just as I expect Toriyama to screw over Yamcha because that's what he always does with him, I expect him to have Gotenks screw himself over due to his ego...at least unless he's matured a bit, which, judging by the portrayal of Goten and Trunks in Super, is unlikely.
In terms of power, they'd be very useful, but Gotenks' strongest form would only last minutes, and then they'd lose it, and they don't have the strategic sense of mind to conserve stamina either. More to the point, I don't think they are mature enough to full grasp the stakes, since they were screwing around even after Goten saw his mom get murdered.
So no, no Goten and Trunks as far as I'm concerned. Too much of a liability.
One Strip! One Strip!Well, I admit that they'd probably be whatever the plot wants them to be. I did put them on the original list.
I just don't know if I fully trust the writer to have them fight smart, and their best move is one that not only burns stamina, but then ultimately leaves them unable to use it for at least an hour.
One Strip! One Strip!To me it's all relative. I mean, if you think about it, Goku ended up pulling all the stunts he said Goten and Trunks would do.
I agree with LSBK, it was more just a convenient way of writing them out of the arc just like with the Resurrection F arc.
edited 28th Dec '17 12:50:58 PM by Lionheart0
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I feel like I'm gonna have to change my catch phrase to fair enough considering how often I use it.
Ok. They stay. Maybe Future Trunks (if he's there) could keep them in check.
One Strip! One Strip!More spoilers for 123.
Looks like Toppo takes 17 out when 17 tries to pull a Taking You with Me maneuver and Gohan doesn't follow through. Curious/worried about the talk of a "full power Super Saiyan Blue", since the last time the anime writers took something from the manga (SSG), it was badly done and poorly implemented. I like what the anime's doing, I don't want the anime writers to be forced to include any of the manga's garbage just because they have a sense of obligation/Toyotaro demanded it.
We also have to consider that Goten and Trunks might break down under pressure. Nevermind the opponents might be needlessly cruel to them and mess them up for the rest of their lives. Pretty sure none of the other universes brought kids into this fight either because no matter how you try to argue about their power, bringing kids to a fight for the survival of the entire universe is idiotic (unless they're the main character because then they'd be improbably good in that situation).
Nevermind Gotenks as a character gets old fast.
I'll admit I had problems with the roster at first (Both Frieza and Buu seemed like horrible picks to me, and Roshi and Tein didn't seem like the best of ideas to me either.) But their contributions to this arc have made me extremely satisfied with it. The only swap I could see making any change for the better would be replacing Tien with Future Trunks.
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I wouldn't call the manga garbage just because he's trying to maintain a sense of consistency. Like, It's not what I care about but I can at least respect trying to keep everything in line, and if SSB is SSG +SSJ then surely the higher grades of SSJ are the way to go.
edited 28th Dec '17 1:26:36 PM by Sigilbreaker26
"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"

I once said that an inanimate pebble would make a better teammate than Frieza, but it seems the events in the tournament have proven me wrong.
So far.
De Romanīs, lingua Latina gloriosa non fuī.