Okay, I'm watching the video now and I've already spotted a problem. He asserts that Vegeta is naturally stronger than Goku.
Vegeta on the other hand flat-out contradicts this, at least in the dub. He says Goku has been born with potential far greater than his own. it's one of the reasons he went Majin. It's during his speech to Goku wheN Goku says they are evenly matched.
But, looking for that quote, I have found dozens of topics on the first page of Google about people asserting Vegeta was stronger than Goku......... I guess the ideo was necessary in a way....sadly.
EDIT: Found the exchange at last:
Goku: "I'm amazed Vegeta. These last seven years in Other World, I've been through the most intense training sessions, but we're still completely even. I guess this whole time you've been pushing yourself even harder than I have."
Majin Vegeta: "That may be true. I've pushed myself to the edge of my limits & beyond, but you've been born with a natural talent far beyond my own. No amount of training could have closed the gap between us!"
edited 14th Jul '14 7:07:12 PM by Nikkolas
Vegeta may have said that Goku was naturally stronger, but he was wrong.
I'll tell you why (although I think the video tells you why): Ginyu.
When Ginyu took over Goku's body, he assumed Goku was naturally incredibly strong. This turned out to be incorrect. Goku's body was, in fact, much weaker than Ginyu's old body. Goku just knew a lot of techniques to compensate for that. However Vegeta was a lot stronger than Goku-Ginyu and beat him easily. See here.
And here.
Vegeta was born stronger than Goku and he was stronger when they first met (the only reason Goku beat him in the Beam-O-War is because of the Kaioken). But Goku trained and learned techniques to make himself stronger. Vegeta did too, but not nearly as much. Once Goku had passed him up, Vegeta didn't do enough to counter it.
edited 14th Jul '14 7:38:42 PM by BaconManiac5000
what do you mean I didn't win, I ate more wet t-shirts than anyone else"Introducing Super-Bills! Like Bills, but Orange! He's even MORE invincible! Look at how even MORE inconsequential I make the entirety of my work look!"
My various fanfics.:-|
What's with all the negativity? Toriyama is writing this from scratch as opposed to reworking some guy's script. What kind of fan doesn't want new animation? (Hell, i fuggen hate Broly and Bardock is overexposed as shit, but I would not object to new movies featuring them, even if not my cup of tea.)
"If you weren't so crazy I'd think you were insane."I kid. Truth be told, I'm pretty optimistic about the film. A rewrite of a story Toriyama wasn't able to tell long ago sounds pretty cool.
edited 15th Jul '14 1:50:55 AM by mrsunshinesprinkles
"Curry killed the pussy hoping that I could kill the hate in you" - Curry, D. "TABOO | TA13OO." TA13OO, PH, 2018Updated info about the 2015 DBZ movie from our good friends at Kanzenshuu
The fact this movie is entirely based on something Toriyama wanted to include in the manga originally has me incredibly intrigued.
All aboard the hype train!
edited 15th Jul '14 7:43:28 AM by FireShadow
Goku needs to be able to hone in on Babidi's ki signature to reach him with Instant Transmission. Presumably, if he could IT straight into Babidi's chamber, he would have taken Vegeta, Gohan, and the other assembled fighters there right at the start of this and skipped the "Fly halfway across the world to reach the ship and then fight down through Babidi's minions!" steps of the process.
Majin Vegeta: "That may be true. I've pushed myself to the edge of my limits & beyond, but you've been born with a natural talent far beyond my own. No amount of training could have closed the gap between us!"
Vegeta doesn't say Goku's stronger, he says Goku has more talent. Talent isn't about strength, it's in his level of skill. Vegeta is physically superior to Goku and has an easier time reaching higher levels of power than Goku does, but while Vegeta is a sledgehammer, Goku is a martial artist; he can accomplish more with less power by understanding proper application of sufficient force, as opposed to Vegeta's gratuitous application of as much force as possible.
Goku can hit harder, move quicker, and go longer than Vegeta can because he knows how to make the best use of the power he has, and that makes him a more capable fighter than Vegeta.
That's not what he said.
"[As with the last movie], I thought up the new story for the next Dragon Ball theatrical movie as though it were a continuation of the manga when it was in serialization. Just the fact that I don’t have to draw anything means I can obsess completely over the smallest bits of dialogue. Well, the truth is that I wasn’t planning on going that far, since it’s pretty exhausting at my age, but I got a little carried away.
This time will of course be a continuation of the previous Battle of Gods, but I’ve deliberately increased the amount of action scenes by a good deal. With regards to the contents, they told me, “Keep it a secret!” like they’re all high-and-mighty, so I can’t touch on it yet, but it should be super-duper interesting!"
edited 15th Jul '14 9:05:35 AM by TobiasDrake
My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.I think you guys are overthinking DBZ's painfully simplistic fighting system.
High Power Level = Better. Fighting techniques don't matter.
Ginyu was crippled because, at the time, Goku relied on the Kaioken. Goku never used the Kaoken after the Namek Arc. Hypothetical Ginyu might be crippled if he tried to possess Android Saga Goku because he couldn't manage Super Saiyan but I think we all know Vegeta can do that just as well as Goku can.
Like I already went over, Goku has +1 Super Saiyan on Vegea and therefore is flat-out stronger. That's just how it is and it's extremely obvious.
Freeza is stronger than Ginyu! How do i know this? Freeza has PL of 120,000,000, Ginyu only has 120,000. There's no need to make a big dela about pointing out the obvious. And that's probably the gap between End of Z Goku and Vegeta.
edited 15th Jul '14 9:38:21 AM by Nikkolas
That's basically never been true in the history of Dragon Ball, as characters with a higher power level are frequently overcome through skill, technique, and superior tactics.
- Raditz - Killed by two characters of substantially lower power.
- Vegeta - Defeated by a combination of Goku's Spirit Bomb thrown by Krillin and deflected by Gohan, Yajirobe's Sword, and the Goku's clever turnabout of Vegeta's own False Moon technique to activate Gohan's Oozaru form.
- Captain Ginyu - Defeated by Goku's ultimate technique, Thrown Frog.
- Frieza - Run about and stalled out through Krillin's Kienzan and Solar Flare, Dende's healing abilities, nearly killed by Piccolo buying time to keep him distracted from Goku's Spirit Bomb, and finally defeated by being bisected with his own attack through clever maneuvering on Goku's part.
- Dr. Gero - Intimidated into fleeing from a severely weakened Vegeta entirely through showboating.
- Cell - Desperation attack rendered invalid through Goku's Instant Transmission, killed by Vegeta's surprise attack distracting him from his Beam Struggle against Gohan.
- Babidi - Killed by Goku persuading Majin Buu not to be a servant anymore.
- Fat Buu - Defeated by Mr. Satan, of all people, through the most literal use of The Power of Friendship to overcome a villain ever.
- Super Buu - Defeated by going inside of him and stripping out the fusions he'd concocted upon himself.
- Pure Buu - Killed by Vegeta buying time for the Spirit Bomb idea Vegeta concocted, empowered through Mr. Satan's glory-hounding tendencies, and driven by Goku re-energized through the Dragon Balls.
The heroes are frequently underdogs in Dragon Ball Z, with the tactic of, "I'm stronger, therefore I win" being utilized more commonly by villains. Vegeta is also fond of trying to simply powerhouse his way through fights by being bigger and meaner than the other guy, and it nearly always ends with a humiliating, bone-breaking, ego-crushing defeat for him.
The heroes prevail when they fight smarter rather than harder.
edited 15th Jul '14 10:03:13 AM by TobiasDrake
My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.![]()
Your assessment of how the villains have been defeated is pretty accurate, but I like this line most of all:
It's been right in front of us the whole time; Goku has trained with Masters all around the world, and even on other worlds. Vegeta trains, but entirely on his own. He's good at getting stronger, but Goku learns from others much more than Vegeta does, and gains actual technique to compliment his power.
I mean, look at how they spent their time in the Room of Time and Spirit / Hyperbolic Time Chamber; Both grew stronger, and both recognized the advantages and flaws of the Ultra Super Saiyan form, but while Vegeta opted to push it as far as possible, without sacrificing too much speed, Goku instead opted to maximize the power of his regular Super Saiyan form in order to bring out the same amount of power with less stress on the body.
Also, Goku actually trained with Gohan and noticed that his son was much more powerful than him, while Vegeta trained by himself, and managed to completely miss that Trunks had surpassed him.
Hammer vs Martial Artist.
It's an incredibly easy fact to forget. He only ever saved the day by defeating the villain himself in the original Dragonball, and the movies.
edited 15th Jul '14 11:36:31 AM by HandsomeRob
One Strip! One Strip!I honestly can't tell how facetious you are being with that list Tobias. For one thing, Raditz was killed by a higher power level, that's the whole point of the scouter. Piccolo's move raised his power level higher than Raditz's.
Goku beat Jeice, Racoome, Ginyu and Berter because he had a higher PL.
Freeza dominated everyone when he actually tried and increased his PL.
Cell went and got a higher PL than Kamiccolo and the Androidsso he could pretty much oneshot them.
Super Vegeta and Trunks went and got a higher PL than Semi-Perfect Cell and utterly trounced him.
Perfect Cell's power level was immeasurably higher than everyone's except SSJ 2 Gohan's and he was only ever hurt because he played around.
It goes on and on like this.
The final ranking of power in DBZ:
Vegito
Super Buuhan
Super Buutenks
Mystic Gohan
SSJ 3 Gotenks
Super Buu
Super Saiyan 3 Goku
Kid Buu
Fat Buu
Vegeta
And Mr. Buu might be stronger than SSJ 2 Vegeta...I'm not sure.
edited 15th Jul '14 12:03:46 PM by Nikkolas

You didn't actually watch the video, and you're criticizing its existence and what it has to say?
There's a reason why the video has that many likes.
edited 14th Jul '14 6:51:41 PM by BaconManiac5000
what do you mean I didn't win, I ate more wet t-shirts than anyone else