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LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#73201: Dec 27th 2017 at 11:47:32 AM

Either way, that's a weird episode title for Toppo given Jiren is still there.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#73202: Dec 27th 2017 at 12:12:44 PM

Toppo is still in training to be a God of Destruction in the anime. It just wasn't mentioned. It was like the first thing we knew about him, from his official bio on the website, before he even showed up in the anime.

The spoilers are interesting. Freeza and Gohan teaming up is inherently an interesting situation, but that Dyspo is pushing Freeza to need Gohan's help shows that Dyspo's not to be underestimated. No mention of Goku or Vegeta using Ultra Instinct to fight Jiren, but they'd kind of have to be in order for Jiren to have to raise his battle power even higher than what we've seen of him, right? I'm very interested in a whole episode about Toppo going all out. Looks like he's either getting some kind of Hakaishin-related power-up mid-battle or he's been holding back a significant portion of his strength up until this point.

Arha Since: Jan, 2010
#73203: Dec 27th 2017 at 12:34:22 PM

Man, Caulifla and Kale are already annoying.

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
Arha Since: Jan, 2010
#73205: Dec 27th 2017 at 12:48:36 PM

First of all, I was invested in Cabba. I didn't need two new saiyans who will probably hog all the spotlight. Second, I don't like their personalities. Gruff tough delinquent Saiyan and crybaby berserker Saiyan? Bleh. They come off as pretty flat. And third, they don't come across as trained warriors or anything, just a couple of random street punks who are implied to be stronger than the universe's greatest warriors. Minus Hit, I guess.

Oh yeah and the Broly shoutout is annoying.

edited 27th Dec '17 12:49:06 PM by Arha

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#73206: Dec 27th 2017 at 12:51:36 PM

Those are pretty common reasons to dislike them. They more or less have the same level of popularity currently as they did in their introductions. You either like them or you don't.

I fall on the side of don't. Boring personalities being the main reason.

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#73207: Dec 27th 2017 at 12:52:08 PM

Spoiler alert: you're dead on with your entire assessment of the situation.

Lionheart0 Since: Oct, 2009 Relationship Status: I'm just a hunk-a, hunk-a burnin' love
#73208: Dec 27th 2017 at 1:28:01 PM

I think I came out on the side of ultimately liking them in the end, flaws and all, but yeah I definitely get it lol

edited 27th Dec '17 1:28:20 PM by Lionheart0

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#73209: Dec 27th 2017 at 1:36:01 PM

I love Kale and Caulifla.

Spoiler-related: apparently the Japanese word used to describe Toppo's arrival as a God of Destruction is a very specific word, and the same word has been used to describe Beerus' arrival.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#73210: Dec 27th 2017 at 1:51:33 PM

Revising my prediction based on the new spoilers. Goku and Vegeta fight Jiren in Ultra Instinct and the three fighters take each other out. Toppo vs Gohan is the final battle. Hakaishin Toppo is still weaker than Jiren, but stronger than SSB KKx20 Goku. Gohan unlocks Ultra Instinct and it comes down to GoD Toppo vs UI Gohan.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#73211: Dec 27th 2017 at 2:07:27 PM

I like them but I get why you wouldn't.

My liking of them or at least Cauli is based that we finally have a genuine Saiyan female as my hatred of Gine because she's such a pussy has led me to compensate by liking her a lot.

Though damn Arha you we invested at least a little in Cabba? That's nice of you which I feel I should tell that he does get truncated screen-time because of girls, in fact the girls end up hogging the spotlight out of all the newest competitors.

Again I like them but no way did they deserve so many fucking episodes to themselves especially since it ended screwing over a lot of far more interesting competitors like Aninzala.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Arha Since: Jan, 2010
#73212: Dec 27th 2017 at 2:14:22 PM

I know I'm a big advocate for giving women better roles in shounen but they are really not what I had in mind.

Also seriously why can't Roshi fly?

BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#73213: Dec 27th 2017 at 2:32:20 PM

Like it was said, you either like Caulifa and Kale, or you don't. And like Universe 2, you better get used to seeing them because man is the shilling strong with those two.

Surprised you liked Cabba though, he's the one people tend to overlook and downplay in favor of the other two.

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
Arha Since: Jan, 2010
#73214: Dec 27th 2017 at 2:34:54 PM

He wasn't amazing but he seemed to have a lot of potential for growth. And I don't just mean in terms of strength.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#73215: Dec 27th 2017 at 2:36:42 PM

Roshi ain't gonna learn no filthy Crane school technique.

Arha Since: Jan, 2010
#73216: Dec 27th 2017 at 2:48:05 PM

There are other ways to fly! It's not like Frieza's goons learned from Tien or whatever.

Sigilbreaker26 Serial Procrastinator Since: Nov, 2017
Serial Procrastinator
#73217: Dec 27th 2017 at 3:03:35 PM

I think the flight of certain species is natural (I think that's why, for example, Dende knows how to fly and also why Namekian houses don't have stairs).

"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#73218: Dec 27th 2017 at 3:14:56 PM

Most races in the series don't seem to think of flight as a technique to be learned; they apparently have much better ki control so it's a thing that comes naturally to them with time. Humans/Earthlings are evidently not one of them, and Goku's time on Earth kept him being to for a variety of reasons.

edited 27th Dec '17 3:15:17 PM by LSBK

Sigilbreaker26 Serial Procrastinator Since: Nov, 2017
Serial Procrastinator
#73219: Dec 27th 2017 at 3:23:33 PM

I highly doubt it, mainly because almost every other race has poorer Ki control than humans. They can't sense battle powers and many have trouble manipulating the battle power of their bodies, either for stealth or to power up for a really strong attack.

"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#73220: Dec 27th 2017 at 3:27:21 PM

Those are just applications of ki control that need to be learned, humans don't naturally develop those skills. Flight seems to really be something that's apparently easy to learn and widespread for most other people.

Vegeta was able to figure out ki-sensing own his own just by being learning it was a thing. And, yeah, Vegeta is supposed to be a genius with things like that but still. Like, most humans are not able to do the things you mentioned.

edited 27th Dec '17 3:28:21 PM by LSBK

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#73221: Dec 27th 2017 at 3:28:09 PM

Sensing battle powers is noted as being really easy if you know it can be done.

Controlling one's battle power is also rare, but apparently also not that difficult to pick up. Even Freeza could do it and he noted having difficulty controlling himself. Ginyu implied capacity for controlling ki was more of a racial thing.

Sigilbreaker26 Serial Procrastinator Since: Nov, 2017
Serial Procrastinator
#73222: Dec 27th 2017 at 3:29:30 PM

Like, I would more easily understand flight as either something loads of races just learn or for some (like Nameks) just something they can do naturally, as a technique rather than something to do with Ki control since one of the factions that uses flight most widely (the Freeza force) is also one of the factions with the least idea about how Ki control works.

Also... isn't the whole point of the Ginyu fight how he just went for the strongest body available without any real idea of how to control Ki? It's why he has so much trouble controlling Goku's body, because Goku had reached that power knowing how to control Ki and Ginyu didn't realise that. If anything that would imply Ki control isn't a racial thing.

edited 27th Dec '17 3:33:20 PM by Sigilbreaker26

"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#73223: Dec 27th 2017 at 3:33:07 PM

Nope, Ginyu can control his ki. He just assumed Goku got his power from being a fellow mutant instead of training, and wasn't able to adapt to the body.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#73224: Dec 27th 2017 at 4:17:22 PM

Here's something interesting and slightly suspicious about Toyotaro's Twitter posts. On December 5, he posted this image of three doodles of supposedly non-canon Kaioshin. On December 8, he posted this image of two doodles of supposedly non-canon Angels. On December 26, he posted this image of three doodles of supposedly non-canon Hakaishin.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#73225: Dec 27th 2017 at 4:40:03 PM

[up] Damn those are some good character designs. [tup]

It be cool if they become actual characters.

Question: Which techniques was Goku formally taught in & which did he "technically" steal?

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."

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