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PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#72927: Dec 25th 2017 at 11:56:52 AM

It really doesn't.

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#72928: Dec 25th 2017 at 12:08:04 PM

The anime makes sense to people that like it, as you'll notice Arha.

BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#72929: Dec 25th 2017 at 12:26:25 PM

It doesn't make sense, but people will swear up and down it does.

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
LordVatek Not really a lord of anything Since: Sep, 2014
Not really a lord of anything
#72930: Dec 25th 2017 at 12:29:03 PM

It doesn't but I don't particularly care if it does.

This song needs more love.
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#72931: Dec 25th 2017 at 12:33:40 PM

I don't care about people liking it despite the flaws and inconsistencies, I care about people pretending they're not there. The original run proves that's not necessary to like Dragon Ball.

edited 25th Dec '17 12:34:08 PM by LSBK

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#72932: Dec 25th 2017 at 12:42:17 PM

I feel like some of you mean me when you say people.

To be fair, I outright dropped this show for like a month around episode 6, and I will say when an episode does something poorly or badly (like when I rewrote 119). Hell, the Universal Survival Saga has the most minor changes of all the arcs in all of Dragon Ball on my document preparing them for movie format. I just happen to like what it's doing right now and I don't enjoy complaining about things.

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#72933: Dec 25th 2017 at 12:54:05 PM

[up]Well, I'd be lying if I said you weren't included in my thoughts, but I'm not talking specifically about you and only you when I say that.

edited 25th Dec '17 12:54:25 PM by LSBK

BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#72934: Dec 25th 2017 at 12:54:26 PM

It's not just you for the record. It's cool though, I pretty much grew up around people who take Dragon Ball too seriously.

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
Larfleeze Agent Orange Since: May, 2009
Agent Orange
#72935: Dec 25th 2017 at 1:51:19 PM

Happy Freeza Day!

edited 25th Dec '17 1:55:11 PM by Larfleeze

Do you know what people want the most? Something somebody else has.
DarkHunter from New Mexico Since: Jan, 2001
#72936: Dec 25th 2017 at 1:54:21 PM

I don't enjoy complaining about things.

This is where I'll agree with you. Much of the Internet seems to take a kind of sick pleasure in pointing out every possible flaw and inconsistency in a show, and if anyone tells them to stop being so negative all the time, they respond "Don't pretend these flaws don't exist!"

We're not pretending the flaws don't exist, we just don't want to spend every conversation talking about everything the show does wrong.

edited 25th Dec '17 1:54:32 PM by DarkHunter

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#72937: Dec 25th 2017 at 1:57:21 PM

The thing about that is, if seeing other people talk about complaints they have, and that they explain, still bothers you, the problem is with you. And if you can't actually refute those complaints, even more so.

I don't think there's anyone here who won't mentions when they like something Super has done. There's not some proper ratio of complaints to praise that needs to be meet.

edited 25th Dec '17 1:59:25 PM by LSBK

Sigilbreaker26 Serial Procrastinator Since: Nov, 2017
Serial Procrastinator
#72938: Dec 25th 2017 at 2:01:01 PM

I think the difference is that there are some people who deny inconsistencies in Dragon Ball Super (which I don't get, they are clearly there) and there are some people who accept that there are inconsistencies but don't care because they make for good moments. To give you an example: Vegeta punching the shit out of Beerus in Battle of Gods after Beerus slaps Bulma. It makes zero sense.* Vegeta has SSJ 2. SSJ 3 Goku got stomped by Beerus. But lots of people like that moment because it was a powerful moment for Vegeta to show how much he loves his family now and how much they mean to him. *(after the fact some bullshit called Quake of Rage was thrown around but it basically amounts to "Vegeta has plot armour when he's angry now")

The manga tones down a lot of these inconsistencies to be fair (like for example, Android 17 forces Goku to SSJ 3 rather than to SSB, which I think we can all agree is a far more reasonable increase in power for several years of training). However, I haven't read it myself, so I can't comment on how much the manga improves or where its specific weaknesses are.

I would probably care more about inconsistencies in Super (and to be totally frank, I am not a big fan of Super, but any problems are mainly other ones) if I liked the late Z-era battle system that continued into Super... but I don't. It's hugely repetitive and boring, and not free of its own series of asspulls even in Z (Goten/Trunks, cough). So if something I don't care about to begin with is compromised and in its place something I do (the character moments) are enhanced, then I can get on board with that. That's a net positive in my book.

"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#72939: Dec 25th 2017 at 2:01:17 PM

I mean, I'll complain when it's something big that I dislike, but I'm not going to scoure each episode for all the minor plot inconsistencies and awkward looking frames to nitpick and complain. Like, does it really matter why Anilaza didn't just use his portal punches to grab people when his plan shifted to eating them? It's a question you could ask, but it's not really that big of an inconsistency.

At most, I'll just make a small note to change that when I get around to it in my "Dragon Ball Movie Notes" document and drop it there.

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#72940: Dec 25th 2017 at 2:04:10 PM

I mean, and that's fair for you personally. I don't tend to really care about most of those things myself. But when most of the episodes in this tournament (or before) have a lot of "minor issues" (and some major ones thrown in there) I also think it's fair for that to wear on people.

Most of the criticisms I see about Super here don't strike me as particularly unfair or unfounded, even if some of them don't bother me.

Sigilbreaker26 Serial Procrastinator Since: Nov, 2017
Serial Procrastinator
#72941: Dec 25th 2017 at 2:11:36 PM

One criticism that has been lurking around for absolutely ages (throughout Z and Super) that I've always wondered about is why no one else has tried drinking the Ultra Divine Water. Did Goku drink every last drop? Can Korrin brew no more?

edited 25th Dec '17 2:12:15 PM by Sigilbreaker26

"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#72942: Dec 25th 2017 at 2:19:16 PM

Because it can kill you, and even with the Dragon Balls the characters don't like treating death lightly. They moved on to better upgrades with less drawbacks.

This is where I'll agree with you. Much of the Internet seems to take a kind of sick pleasure in pointing out every possible flaw and inconsistency in a show, and if anyone tells them to stop being so negative all the time, they respond "Don't pretend these flaws don't exist!"

We're not pretending the flaws don't exist, we just don't want to spend every conversation talking about everything the show does wrong.

'Sick pleasure'? You might want to cut the insulting hyperbole there.

Hell, I don't even voice most of the complaints I have about each episode. I don't bring up the ones that occur basically Once an Episode at this point unless something specifically points it out/brings it up in conversation.

Moth13 Since: Sep, 2010
#72943: Dec 25th 2017 at 2:19:31 PM

@Sigil: Yeah it's not that people are wrong to say such-and-such doesn't track with how power level used to work, but that it comes up so much and dominates discussion makes it seem like they're much bigger deals than they are. Power level wank is the most boring part of the series, so people constantly acting like it's more important than emotional moments/cool moments gets tiring.

Zeromaeus Since: May, 2010
#72944: Dec 25th 2017 at 2:20:23 PM

[up][up][up]Its probably no longer relevant as a means of growing stronger. Like Kaio-Ken, but even less. The others skipped straight to training with god, so it likely wasn't even a relevant power-up even after the Piccolo arc.

edited 25th Dec '17 2:20:51 PM by Zeromaeus

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#72945: Dec 25th 2017 at 2:21:01 PM

The thing is, I don't think Super's attempts at emotional/cool moments stick the landing most of the time. I also think it wouldn't be hard to be consistent and have cool moments.

So the end result is unnecessary contradictions that don't have an upside.

edited 25th Dec '17 2:21:18 PM by Saiga

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#72946: Dec 25th 2017 at 2:21:34 PM

[up]x5 Wasn't Goku the only person in history to ever get a boost from that? Seems like a better nitpick is: "why hasn't everyone spent a few hours sitting in front of Elder Kaioshin while he does his dance"?

edited 25th Dec '17 2:22:57 PM by PushoverMediaCritic

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#72947: Dec 25th 2017 at 2:23:18 PM

And the only person that even applies to is the kids (and later Oob). They're the only ones with potential worth it, because Goku and Vegeta probably wouldn't go for that.

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#72948: Dec 25th 2017 at 2:23:19 PM

I mean, I think Super has had emotional and cool moments, but I don't think they're connected to screwing around with characters absolute and relative strengths. And I'm also not the kind of person for whom an "emotional moment" that relies on characters being able to do things they straight up shouldn't be able to do with no explanation works on. That strikes me as an unnecessary false dichotomy.

edited 25th Dec '17 2:26:20 PM by LSBK

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#72949: Dec 25th 2017 at 2:24:10 PM

I'm confused by your last sentence, did you mean that you accept inconsistency for cool moments or you don't?

wait nevermind its clear now

edited 25th Dec '17 2:24:20 PM by Saiga

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#72950: Dec 25th 2017 at 2:37:40 PM

I'm rather hyped or interesting in that movie.

The origin of the Super Saiyan might lead to an interesting movie.

Especially if the animation is Godlike.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."

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