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HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#72451: Dec 19th 2017 at 10:02:51 AM

Heck, aside from Piccolo or Tien, every action taken by just about every side character in the Cell arc actually does more to help Cell than help beat him (until they all pitch in during the final beam struggle).

Actually, Piccolo fighting with 17 (and failing to beat him) allowed Cell to find and absorb them, so only Tien didn't make the situation worse. He didn't help, but he didn't add to the shittyness of it.

"The Saiyan arc also starts the shitty trend of Goku being absent for large sections of the story while the side characters accomplish nothing of value waiting for Goku to finally get there and solve all their problems." Manifestly not true since the same damn thing happens in the Demon King Piccolo arc.

Heh. That's very true. Although the Demon King Piccolo arc at least pretended that maybe they could do something, first by having the others go after the balls, then by showing Roshi knew the Mafuuba, and then having Tien learn it.

After a while, the series stopped pretending the other characters could do anything but wait for him to save their asses...and then he stopped being able to actually do that, until he did again.

One Strip! One Strip!
Sigilbreaker26 Serial Procrastinator Since: Nov, 2017
Serial Procrastinator
#72452: Dec 19th 2017 at 10:05:36 AM

Eh... at least Piccolo had the *right idea*. He was just a bit overconfident. Think he would have been able to kill 17 eventually? It wasn't manifestly dumb in the way that Krillin and Vegeta's actions were, for instance.

In the manga Tien learns it *only not to use it because his pot got damaged*. In the anime Tien at least tries but Drum shields his master. This same Drum who beats the shit out of Tien in the manga and gives him a ton of trouble in the anime Goku one shots.

edited 19th Dec '17 10:07:50 AM by Sigilbreaker26

"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#72453: Dec 19th 2017 at 10:08:34 AM

Honestly, outside of perhaps detriment of Goku's character, I've never gotten why "stall until Goku shows up" is supposed to be bad.

It's still those other characters doing something, and you shouldn't go into a story expecting the side characters to defeat the big villain anyway.

edited 19th Dec '17 10:09:05 AM by LSBK

Sigilbreaker26 Serial Procrastinator Since: Nov, 2017
Serial Procrastinator
#72454: Dec 19th 2017 at 10:13:33 AM

"Honestly, outside of perhaps detriment of Goku's character, I've never gotten why "stall until Goku shows up" is supposed to be bad."

It's massively, massively formulaic.

"It's still those other characters doing something, and you shouldn't go into a story expecting the side characters to defeat the big villain anyway."

Well, it's not that Goku gets the glory of the final kill and more that the side characters don't do *anything*. Barely any of the arcs have mooks, for instance, and a lot of the ones that do have them be killed by Goku. There's a reason a lot of shonen do Counterpart Combat Coordination. Look at the Ginyu force: the weakest one by far is beaten by Vegeta. The rest are beaten by Goku ... and Vegeta cleans them up.

edited 19th Dec '17 10:15:06 AM by Sigilbreaker26

"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#72455: Dec 19th 2017 at 10:18:06 AM

Eh, I don't consider formulaic inherently bad.

I'd agree that stuff could have been spread out better when there were mooks, but I actually like that Dragon Ball got to a point where it stopped doing that. They often just feel like filler to give side-characters things to do, instead of actually mattering. At least with stall tactics against the villain you can say "Hey, if they don't do this Frieza will probably just blow up the planet and kill Goku to/go to Earth, so every second does count."

Against Cell it really wasn't "wait for Goku", Goku happened to be out of commission and they went on trying to stop the villains. They didn't succeed, but Goku being awake really wouldn't have changed that.

edited 19th Dec '17 10:20:17 AM by LSBK

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#72456: Dec 19th 2017 at 10:31:56 AM

On the topic of the Gods of Destruction, I've always been intrigued by Mosco's... existence. Who built it, and for what purpose? When and how did it ascend to godhood? Is its creator internationally famous for having built the universe's God of Destruction? How did Campari and Ea learn how to communicate with it?

I can kind of answer one of these. Mosco's official bio states that he's a really old model of robot, which is why he can't communicate in anything but beeps and boops. This is also the most backstory we have on any of the Gods of Destruction.

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#72457: Dec 19th 2017 at 10:34:55 AM

Oh, Mosco is an actual robot and not just another variety of "metalman" like Magetta or whatever?

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#72458: Dec 19th 2017 at 10:39:11 AM

Yeah, same with half of the U3 team.

hardcorefakes coolest_guy from probably America Since: Oct, 2015 Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
coolest_guy
#72459: Dec 19th 2017 at 10:42:22 AM

[up]x4

Something being formulaic isn't inherently" bad", but it definitely becomes trite and cliche after awhile. Which could lead to fans becoming bored and losing interest. Not that this is a huge problem with Dragon Ball (since the fights themselves are interesting enough), but it is something to keep in mind...

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#72460: Dec 19th 2017 at 10:45:24 AM

Saying it's not inherently bad doesn't imply it can't be done badly. I'm off the mind it doesn't really matter if a similar pattern is followed as long as the specific circumstances and plot are different and interesting enough. Similar broad strokes aren't something I get upset about.

edited 19th Dec '17 10:48:15 AM by LSBK

hardcorefakes coolest_guy from probably America Since: Oct, 2015 Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
coolest_guy
#72461: Dec 19th 2017 at 10:54:38 AM

Agreed. Just make the differences appreciable, and the different plot points done well and it's fine as well in my book. The problems come when it seems like the writers don't care anymore.

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#72462: Dec 19th 2017 at 10:59:05 AM

On a wildly different subject, ever wonder why the animal people more or less got phased out of the background? It's a bit of a shame, not really important, but makes things look a bit less interesting.

Jedi1113 Since: Jun, 2009
#72463: Dec 19th 2017 at 11:11:59 AM

[up] Cleary there was some kind of genocide against the furries.

Lionheart0 Since: Oct, 2009 Relationship Status: I'm just a hunk-a, hunk-a burnin' love
#72464: Dec 19th 2017 at 11:26:56 AM

So here's a throwback, any of you guys remember when this aired on Cartoon Network:

TwistedGear Don't know how to pilot this thing Since: Jun, 2014
Don't know how to pilot this thing
#72465: Dec 19th 2017 at 11:32:28 AM

Cell and Nappa might have actually killed the majority of them. But I think the big reason was that Namek made Toriyama realize that with all the animal people on earth he had limited options for alien race designs. And he probably phased them out just in case he wanted to make an alien beastman be a villain later. Or Namek made him forget that beastmen were a thing. Honestly I wish one of the games would give us beast men as an available race, it'd be a way to set your character apart from the rest of the playable cast. Maybe we could even get some expansion on Oolong and Puar by having them be the race mentor.

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#72466: Dec 19th 2017 at 11:51:07 AM

[up][up]My nostalgia kicked in so hard I had to pause the video. That really made the series look hardcore to a little kid.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#72467: Dec 19th 2017 at 11:58:27 AM

Man English DBZ is so fucking metal.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Arha Since: Jan, 2010
#72468: Dec 19th 2017 at 11:58:52 AM

I watched DBZ as a kid but I don't remember that at all. All I remember is DRAGON DRAGON ROCK THE DRAGON.

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
Sigilbreaker26 Serial Procrastinator Since: Nov, 2017
Serial Procrastinator
#72470: Dec 19th 2017 at 12:02:07 PM

As corny and silly as Rock the Dragon is, I do appreciate the sort of over-the-top nature it has (and the good choice to go for the movie animation over scenes from the show). This coming from a guy who didn't watch it growing up.

"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"
LordVatek Not really a lord of anything Since: Sep, 2014
Not really a lord of anything
#72471: Dec 19th 2017 at 12:03:53 PM

Yeah I remember that. I also remember not seeing any difference between that and "cut" version as a kid.

But yes, DBZ in America was pure 90's.

This song needs more love.
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#72472: Dec 19th 2017 at 12:05:22 PM

So 90s they replaced the tracks of most movies & GT with Rock & Heavy Metal.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#72473: Dec 19th 2017 at 12:05:49 PM

It took me a second, but yeah I remember that video. Good times, good times.

SonOfSharknado Love is Love is Love Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Love is Love is Love
#72474: Dec 19th 2017 at 12:06:48 PM

It was fucking awesome, though.

My various fanfics.
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#72475: Dec 19th 2017 at 12:09:12 PM

[up] Yes it was indeed. [tup] [awesome]

DBZ was a surprisingly Metal franchise. I rather miss the hardcore soundtracks we used to get back then.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."

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